Opinions on CETV ?

NottinghamKnight

Brynsam said:

NottinghamKnight said:

The difficulty is that you'd have to spend many thousands on an ifa, if you can find one, to give you the report you need. That would say it's not in your interest to transfer and you'd then struggle to find anywhere to accept a transfer in against advice. 

Red herring. Any stakeholder pension would take it whatever the advice says - the law requires it to do so. OP could then transfer on to a SIPP without difficulty, as that would be a DC to DC transfer.

Not at all. Stakeholders may take it but whether any will or are able to is a very different proposition. That's after the issue about getting the report being done, and the cost of that report.

Albermarle

The figure of £9,530 is probably the figure given to you when you left that you would be entitled to at 65 .
Most likely it increasing with inflation every year , hence the £11,860 figure given in 2014 and a projected figure of £14,200 at 65 ( using an estimate of inflation ) 
Exactly how schemes add inflation before and after retirement , is individual to the scheme so you need to read the scheme rules/booklet . 
Probably your pension today is worth around £13K so the CETV of £360K is not bad but not that great either, although ir depends also on the details of the scheme. 

Marcon

NottinghamKnight said:

Brynsam said:

NottinghamKnight said:

The difficulty is that you'd have to spend many thousands on an ifa, if you can find one, to give you the report you need. That would say it's not in your interest to transfer and you'd then struggle to find anywhere to accept a transfer in against advice. 

Red herring. Any stakeholder pension would take it whatever the advice says - the law requires it to do so. OP could then transfer on to a SIPP without difficulty, as that would be a DC to DC transfer.

Not at all. Stakeholders may take it but whether any will or are able to is a very different proposition. That's after the issue about getting the report being done, and the cost of that report.

Not a 'may' - they have to under current legislation. 

Albermarle

NottinghamKnight said:

Brynsam said:

NottinghamKnight said:

The difficulty is that you'd have to spend many thousands on an ifa, if you can find one, to give you the report you need. That would say it's not in your interest to transfer and you'd then struggle to find anywhere to accept a transfer in against advice. 

Red herring. Any stakeholder pension would take it whatever the advice says - the law requires it to do so. OP could then transfer on to a SIPP without difficulty, as that would be a DC to DC transfer.

Not at all. Stakeholders may take it but whether any will or are able to is a very different proposition. That's after the issue about getting the report being done, and the cost of that report.

I am only aware of two stakeholders still open for new business. Aviva was previously a non starter for DB transfers as you had to go through an intermediary ( Cavendish ) . Now it is sold direct maybe they will . Standard Life is the only other provider offering new stakeholders as far as I know .

Brynsam

NottinghamKnight said:

Brynsam said:

NottinghamKnight said:

The difficulty is that you'd have to spend many thousands on an ifa, if you can find one, to give you the report you need. That would say it's not in your interest to transfer and you'd then struggle to find anywhere to accept a transfer in against advice. 

Red herring. Any stakeholder pension would take it whatever the advice says - the law requires it to do so. OP could then transfer on to a SIPP without difficulty, as that would be a DC to DC transfer.

Not at all. Stakeholders may take it but whether any will or are able to is a very different proposition. 

Stakeholder pensions are currently the only type of pension which is required to accept a transfer in from any UK registered pension scheme - so 'whether any will or are able' doesn't apply. Welfare Reform & Pensions Act 1999 Section 1 if you'd like to check for youself.

The advice is still needed where the CETV is £30K+ because the ceding DB scheme will need to confirm advice has been received by the member.

NottinghamKnight

Brynsam said:

NottinghamKnight said:

Brynsam said:

NottinghamKnight said:

The difficulty is that you'd have to spend many thousands on an ifa, if you can find one, to give you the report you need. That would say it's not in your interest to transfer and you'd then struggle to find anywhere to accept a transfer in against advice. 

Red herring. Any stakeholder pension would take it whatever the advice says - the law requires it to do so. OP could then transfer on to a SIPP without difficulty, as that would be a DC to DC transfer.

Not at all. Stakeholders may take it but whether any will or are able to is a very different proposition. 

Stakeholder pensions are currently the only type of pension which is required to accept a transfer in from any UK registered pension scheme - so 'whether any will or are able' doesn't apply. Welfare Reform & Pensions Act 1999 Section 1 if you'd like to check for youself.

The advice is still needed where the CETV is £30K+ because the ceding DB scheme will need to confirm advice has been received by the member.

You've misunderstood my point. This has been discussed before and whilst they may be required to, if they are not open and accepting any new money then it effectively means they are not available. The law may allow, or prescribe something, but if no one is offering that option it's not available, it's a fairly simple point. I'm not aware that anyone has successfully achieved a transfer to a stakeholder but it may have occurred. As albemarle points out there are one or two that may be open to new accounts but they are an outdated product that has been superseded. There is a j bell of course which would be a simpler option, though as a sipp it does require some knowledge to operate.

Tony4625

Read a lot about CETV multiples  , is there a way of working out what is a good multiple or Is it just worked out  with very  complicated set of stats / figs  ie 20 x  , 30x etc  ? Just trying to get a handle on things I’ve never thought about till recently.

Brynsam

NottinghamKnight said:

Brynsam said:

NottinghamKnight said:

Brynsam said:

NottinghamKnight said:

The difficulty is that you'd have to spend many thousands on an ifa, if you can find one, to give you the report you need. That would say it's not in your interest to transfer and you'd then struggle to find anywhere to accept a transfer in against advice. 

Red herring. Any stakeholder pension would take it whatever the advice says - the law requires it to do so. OP could then transfer on to a SIPP without difficulty, as that would be a DC to DC transfer.

Not at all. Stakeholders may take it but whether any will or are able to is a very different proposition. 

Stakeholder pensions are currently the only type of pension which is required to accept a transfer in from any UK registered pension scheme - so 'whether any will or are able' doesn't apply. Welfare Reform & Pensions Act 1999 Section 1 if you'd like to check for youself.

The advice is still needed where the CETV is £30K+ because the ceding DB scheme will need to confirm advice has been received by the member.

You've misunderstood my point. This has been discussed before and whilst they may be required to, if they are not open and accepting any new money then it effectively means they are not available. The law may allow, or prescribe something, but if no one is offering that option it's not available, it's a fairly simple point. I'm not aware that anyone has successfully achieved a transfer to a stakeholder but it may have occurred. 

It's been discussed before, with much of the discussion being inaccurate. The Pru is certainly open for stakeholder business - and transfers!

Middlestitch

NottinghamKnight said:

Brynsam said:

NottinghamKnight said:

Brynsam said:

NottinghamKnight said:

The difficulty is that you'd have to spend many thousands on an ifa, if you can find one, to give you the report you need. That would say it's not in your interest to transfer and you'd then struggle to find anywhere to accept a transfer in against advice. 

Red herring. Any stakeholder pension would take it whatever the advice says - the law requires it to do so. OP could then transfer on to a SIPP without difficulty, as that would be a DC to DC transfer.

Not at all. Stakeholders may take it but whether any will or are able to is a very different proposition. 

Stakeholder pensions are currently the only type of pension which is required to accept a transfer in from any UK registered pension scheme - so 'whether any will or are able' doesn't apply. Welfare Reform & Pensions Act 1999 Section 1 if you'd like to check for youself.

The advice is still needed where the CETV is £30K+ because the ceding DB scheme will need to confirm advice has been received by the member.

You've misunderstood my point. This has been discussed before and whilst they may be required to, if they are not open and accepting any new money then it effectively means they are not available. The law may allow, or prescribe something, but if no one is offering that option it's not available, it's a fairly simple point. I'm not aware that anyone has successfully achieved a transfer to a stakeholder but it may have occurred. As albemarle points out there are one or two that may be open to new accounts but they are an outdated product that has been superseded. There is a j bell of course which would be a simpler option, though as a sipp it does require some knowledge to operate.

I think you've misunderstood the market. I transferrred on a non-advised basis (CETV below £30K) to a Pru stakeholder a few months ago.

NottinghamKnight

Tony4625 said:

Read a lot about CETV multiples  , is there a way of working out what is a good multiple or Is it just worked out  with very  complicated set of stats / figs  ie 20 x  , 30x etc  ? Just trying to get a handle on things I’ve never thought about till recently.

One simple way of looking at the cetv is to take the figure and convert to it's reciprocal, so 20x (which was a historically common multiplier) would be 0.05, or 5%. That is the return you need to replace that investment income, though actually slightly lower as there will be some use of capital. So 30 times would 3.3%, 40 times would be 2.5%.
Historically the returns on annuities or savings accounts would be at those levels so the guaranteed income could be replaced, now given zero interest rates hen even generous transfer offers can't be replaced with certain income. The high cetv values are a function of the economic climate, and capital can of course be spent but that will run out over time. 
We are now hearing of cetv multipliers of 40x or more, the value being determined by the calculated liability to the pension payer.
If you outlined the reason for requiring a large lump sum then people may be able to comment further with more ideas.