Employer suggested finding new role - on sick leave for mental health issues

Halfie

Wonder if anyone can point me in the right direction or advise whether my sons employer is handling this correctly.

He is employed by local government and has been off work since August as he had a breakdown at work.  We have been waiting for an NHS mental health assessment since but as he is keen to get back to work, we have seen a private psychiatrist who has diagnosed Major Depressive Disorder and Generalized Anxiety Disorder.  Medication has been started 2 weeks ago and psychotherapy is also being arranged. 

Oocuaptional health also did an assessment and advised my son is not fit for work due to mental health issues but suggested keeping in touch calls and some reasonable adjustments for employer including looking at alternative role.  On his keeping in touch call today his manager asked when he would be back to work because he's just sent another fit note to end of November.  She also said that whilst they've read the Occ Health report he won't be redeployed and if he doesn't want to come back to his current role then he should look for another job.  He found her manner very aggresive and its obviously worrying him that they're going to sack him.  This is not the first time this has been suggested to him and it feels very wrong to be saying that to someone off sick, especially with mental health issues.  Thoughts would be appreciated as to whether this is something that needs raising or is a reasonable thing to say. 

[Deleted User]

The official guidelines are:

You can be dismissed if you have a persistent or long-term illness that makes it impossible for you to do your job.

Before taking any action, your employer should:

• look for ways to support you - for example, considering whether the job itself is making you sick and needs changing
• give you reasonable time to recover from your illness

I'd say that you need to look into whether the job itself caused the mental health issues, in which case it could occur again and maybe a different job would be more appropriate. Has the employer consider alternative roles? EDIT: I can see they have said redeployment isn't an option.

Reasonable time to recover - if medical advice can support that your son can recover from this in a period of time, then that supports your son in terms of suggesting that he could be back at work in the future, however don't pressure your son into making any promises as that could worsen the situation.

Floop

It’s true though - if he wants another job he will need to apply for one. Occ health suggesting a change of role as a reasonable adjustment doesn’t oblige the employer to do so. I’m public sector too, and the way we use redeployment is as an alternative to dismissal in exceptional circumstances, and ONLY if there is a suitable role available that the person is qualified/experienced to do. It’s actually quite hard to redeploy someone as a reasonable adjustment, not least because it relies on there being a genuine vacancy available at the time that also suits the persons needs.  You can’t make up a job for them. It also isn’t there as an option for the employee to choose.

 I have recently told an employee in vaguely similar circumstances that if they want a new job they will have to apply for one - they weren’t off sick, but by all accounts their job was the cause of their MH difficulties at the time. With proper tailored support, they have been able to settle into their role though. 

Is your son expecting to return to his job within a reasonable timescale? The employer will be looking at that. After 2/3 months off and presented with another month long fit note they would understandably be questioning that. They aren’t obliged to wait for him to get better in his own time - if there is no possibility of a return in a reasonable timescale they can move to dismiss him - have they started this procedure yet? Have there been discussions about phased returns or further occ health assessments? 

 It is always going to feel aggressive when you’re on the receiving end of these procedures, especially when you are in a fragile state like your son is. 

Is he in a union? Is his job a major cause of his MH difficulties, or are there also external factors? 

Barny1979

My experience of people off with stress or other mental health issues is that they are off generally 6 months and then there is no talk to dismiss, they return to their existing role.

Halfie

Agree whilst what was said was fact, the way it was received felt threatening to my son.  And of course appreciate a role cant be created that isnt there too.  But there was no mention of any of the other adjustments Occ Health suggested which were phased return and a mentor/support plus weekly touch points with manager to discuss how things are.  Next Occ Health call due to take place in a couple of weeks. 

In terms of a reasonable time frame for return, he was off from mid August, a referral to local Mental Health team was made and after initial assessment to ensure he wasn't going to harm himself or others the decided he needed a further psychiatric assessment. After 6 weeks no appointment for that was forthcoming from NHS so we booked a private psych assessment which was 2 weeks ago, and meds have been started but expected to take 4-6 weeks to take effect.  Follow up psychiatric appointment in another 2 weeks. Nothing has started re dismissal proceedings, just this suggestion he should look for alternative employment.

Hes not in a union, no.  And he has had long term mental health issues which have only just been diagnosed and his role whilst not solely responsible does seem to exasperate the issues. 

Floop

From the way you’ve described it, they haven’t told him to seek alternative employment, rather they have told him redeployment is not a possibility and to look elsewhere if he wants a different role. They are quite different propositions. 

From the outside looking in, there’s no reason to conclude that a different role would necessarily make things better anyway. I would suggest that he continues to pursue treatment, makes sure he has the support in place outside work to help him cope with his MH difficulties  generally (therapy) and give his job another go. He’s going through a very difficult time at the moment, won’t be thinking straight, is starting medication that makes you think even more wonky until it settles down. He won’t feel like this forever - and it will feel better/different  for him when he does feel better. He may very well be glad of a familiar job to return to. 

Rather than trying to pursue redeployment, it would be wiser to vigorously pursue the other (very reasonable) adjustments and make sure they are in place. A mentor and a weekly check in is not a big ask at all, and a phased return is standard procedure - in order to encourage the employer it would be good to have conversations now about what the return to work will look like, on the understanding that it isn’t going to be happening next week and he won’t be rushing back to please them.  Then your son will know what he is working towards. If he’s signed off until end Nov then a suggested return in the NY is probably a reasonable expectation for all - of course if he gets there and isn’t ready he can delay a bit longer, but a lot can change in 2 months with the medication and therapy in place (I speak from personal experience). 

Halfie

Thanks ever so much Floop, thats really helpful.  I will get him to ask what his return will look like whenever that is and make sure he explains he will be back when hes ready, not because they're irked at paying a temp! 

He is aiming to go back end of November if meds are working well but I feel happier now if he needs to take a bit longer that it won't be seen as unreasonable.  

Thank you ever so! X

eamon

Its a shame that he doesn't have any union back up at this time. He could still join and ask for advice that they could give him informally.0

Halfie

We have learned that our local NHS mental health support offer employment support too so we will reach out to them if need be.  I'm in a union, I wonder if they could still advise informally. 

Comms69

Well hopefully not; without being rude. People pay their fees for this advice - if it's given out for free then that kind of defeats the purpose

TELLIT01

The harsh reality is that if there is no other suitable work available, and they are not able to return to the same job, the only option is to seek alternative employment.  To suggest otherwise to him would be to create false hope.  The way this was expressed to him may have been poor but the underlying truth is the same.