CSA vs Shared Custody

carbonmanx

I've had a good read through the forums, but just not sure of the answer to my question, so i'm hoping someone can help to clarify.
I got divorced 7 years ago, and was given joint custody of our daughter.
Initially i had genuine 50/50 time with her, but over the next few years my ex eroded that to the point where now i have just under 50/50.
I didn't realise that joint custody meant that actually I didn't necessarily need to pay CSA, so just did a calculation based on the nights I have her and subsequently arranged regular payments.
Circumstances have now changed and in looking at everything its got me thinking that actually do I even need to pay CSA?
We have joint custody (albeit not exactly 50/50 time, but I believe thats not a determining factor?) I pay my way fully when she is with me despite the CSA payments - I pay for her clothing, school clubs, school meals when shes on my days, buy her anything she needs, and my ex even taps me up for the odd bit here and there in addition, like school shoes etc..
Obviously ive been paying this for a while now, but given my change in circumstances and from what I have read I feel like im actually not required too?

Can anyone comment on whether my thoughts are correct? I've NEVER had any issue paying my way, and supporting my daughter, id have her 100% of the time if i could, but equally with my current circumstances and looking at everything, im not so sure i need to actually pay CSA.
Thanks in advance.

ZaSa1418

Technically if your ex is in receipt of child benefit then she is entitled to maintenance.
The amount shouldn't be huge unless you earn a fortune as you get a discount for having your daughter as many overnights as you do.
The system has never caught up with shared care when it is 50/50 but hopefully it will one day.
If you don't like paying the extras your ex asks then tell her no and that is what her maintenance is for

carbonmanx

Ok thanks, I thought there was a ruling which stated if you had joint custody there was no need for csa payments to either side but wasn't sure. 

ZaSa1418

carbonmanx said:

Ok thanks, I thought there was a ruling which stated if you had joint custody there was no need for csa payments to either side but wasn't sure. 

unfortunately there isn't - there should be though. 
I am pretty sure a court would say no maintenance is due in this case but after a year if the cms become involved they can overrule. 

Comms69

It's not quite that simple - the CMS do acknowledge joint custody claims; the easiest way to do this is simply get your ex to close the claim

carbonmanx

Its a private arrangement at the moment - no CSA involvement other than me initially using their calculator to work out the original amount.
I could obviously have a conversation with the ex around stopping the payments, but no one likes losing income do they and I just wanted to be clear where I stood before broaching the topic!
Cheers

ZaSa1418

carbonmanx said:

Its a private arrangement at the moment - no CSA involvement other than me initially using their calculator to work out the original amount.
I could obviously have a conversation with the ex around stopping the payments, but no one likes losing income do they and I just wanted to be clear where I stood before broaching the topic!
Cheers

Definitely worth asking her, if she says no then just pay her the maintenance and then if she asks for extras simply say no.

kimdegsidash

Hi Carbon.  I have a similar situation.  Exact 50/50 overnight stays plus I play a very active part in the day to day care of the children. 
I have been paying CMS as well as and on top of financially and caring support of my children.  
I looked into the legislation and there was a case in 2018 that decided that maintenance should NOT be paid when there is equal care (regardless of who claims child benefit) and the court agreed that CMS has no jurisdiction in such cases.
I have written to CMS to request a change however they are taking an age to deal with it.  In the meantime I'm still paying maintenance whilst equally supporting the children.
You DO have a case but you will need to tread carefully with your ex as they will not like losing income as you say. 
My problem is that the equal care came in after the CMS got involved so I have to go down the rabbit hole of challenging their decision,  At least in your case you are not yet in the system and the likelihood is your ex would not be able to make a claim with CMS if you have evidence to show that you provide equal care based on ALL of the evidence. 
The court case is Upper Tribunal Judge Gray in CF v SSWP & CG [2018] UKUT 276 if you want to read the decision.

kimdegsidash

ZaSa1418 said:

Technically if your ex is in receipt of child benefit then she is entitled to maintenance.
The amount shouldn't be huge unless you earn a fortune as you get a discount for having your daughter as many overnights as you do.
The system has never caught up with shared care when it is 50/50 but hopefully it will one day.
If you don't like paying the extras your ex asks then tell her no and that is what her maintenance is for

I don't think this is technically correct. The legislation says that in deciding who is the PWC and the NRP weighs with the parent claiming child benefit ONLY if the other parent provides care to a lesser extent than the claimant.  The case of CF v SSWP & CG [2018] UKUT 276 supports this. 

ZaSa1418

kimdegsidash said:

ZaSa1418 said:

Technically if your ex is in receipt of child benefit then she is entitled to maintenance.
The amount shouldn't be huge unless you earn a fortune as you get a discount for having your daughter as many overnights as you do.
The system has never caught up with shared care when it is 50/50 but hopefully it will one day.
If you don't like paying the extras your ex asks then tell her no and that is what her maintenance is for

I don't think this is technically correct. The legislation says that in deciding who is the PWC and the NRP weighs with the parent claiming child benefit ONLY if the other parent provides care to a lesser extent than the claimant.  The case of CF v SSWP & CG [2018] UKUT 276 supports this. 

Unfortunately this case seems to be the exception and not the norm otherwise your case would have been closed by now. 
Some of the people who work at the CMS still state 50/50 is not achievable as there is not an even amount of overnights a year - which is technically true but what nonsense in general.