MISSOLD My Choice HomeBuy Equity Loan - Help, Martin!

Learning_Curve

monetxchange said:

Agree, the proof you claim to have is just your assertion that you didn't understand the terms. But then you signed the terms and conditions to say you understood and were happy to proceed, so what's the lender supposed to do? Research every area of your life? Lack of capacity is very hard to prove and you're sounding much more legal savvy now than I think would denote an inability to understand anything. I'm afraid claiming you didn't understand it in 2011, two years after you signed to say you did understand, isn't proof of mis selling. If that was enough, everyone could claim they didn't get it two years into a mortgage or loan and get out of it.

The lenders Ts and C's will be legally watertight so that they don't have a barrage of "I didn't understand" claims against them. The examples you gave relate to business loans and mortgages, not the equity loan you have so aren't applicable. The law works on the premise of what the law is in statue, not how you read it or think it applies. Any judge you come before will be following established legal precedent, not if they have sympathy for you.

I'm aware of the government schemes, am in one myself. It's a little naive to think they're designed to help you out getting on the ladder - they're packaged as that but at their heart they're to make money for them too. A very quick Google would have shown this at the time of taking it out.

You signed to say you understood, I really do feel money would be wasted on solicitors chasing this (work in a legal field). What's the reality of your financial situation now? Isn't it better to get this nailed down and work out how to budget your way out of the bind?

Thanks for your reply. Without going into my personal medical information I can't give more details on my understanding. But don't be fooled. Googling and repeating what you believe applies, (or vocabulary used) does not denote understanding. That alone is shown by you saying the examples used don't apply, so nothing can be assumed from my communication. I know what affects my understanding, whilst nobody on this thread does. But that's not the point.

Without going into all the in's and out's, the way it came out over email that I didn't understand, was a byproduct of something I was contacting them about, it wasn't because I emailed them to claim I had misunderstood. They told me I had misunderstood and I hadn't been aware before that time.

It seems several of the replies on here are more interested in somehow reprimanding me, e.g. you are now telling me I should have Googled. That's the whole point of not understanding, you think you know but you in fact don't. So saying I should have been aware to look up particular things is paradoxical.

There's no way to get out of it. Unless property prices plummet. I still say that the lender has the responsibility to ensure the person they are giving money to has understood, especially when it's done at a distance. And the proofs I have prove my misunderstanding, so the way I look at it, that proves they missold because they had a duty to establish we understood.

Thanks for your reply. I don't think people are seeing what I'm saying in this thread. But that only goes further to show a mismatch in communication which related to my understanding of something, that as someone else claims, the "average person" would be expected to understand.

Learning_Curve

csgohan4 said:

OP if you didn't understand the terms, why did you sign it anyway? Did you ask a solicitor? if not why not?
Asking a lender about your mortgage is akin to asking a monkey rote reading the T+Cs to you. They cannot deviate from what's written in your offer. 

OP it appears your clutching at straws. By all means make a complaint, but your biggest defence is also your biggest weakness. Saying you didn't understand will likely be frowned upon by the ombudsman. 

Finally OP, we're not here to give you what you want to hear and ignoring sound advice already given and copying and pasting text from Mr Google is not going to get you anywhere

If you see my last reply to monetxchange I said:

"That's the whole point of not understanding, you think you know but you in fact don't. So saying I should have been aware to look up particular things is paradoxical."

So because of that, we signed, having a different understanding than the facts, but of course not actually understanding. I don't understand your comment about asking a lender about your mortgage.

I already said in my OP that I did make a complaint. I am well aware you are not here to give me what I want to hear. Ironically you are telling me to stop using Google information, when the previous respondent told me I should have Googled.

I'm not clutching at straws. I'm presenting the facts. But it appears you are assuming I have an ulterior motive behind this (I don't). This has all become pointless. An exercise in people coming on simply to be critical without offering any reliable information that will help. I appreciate those who have replied with the right heart. But this is going nowhere.

csgohan4

Learning_Curve said:

csgohan4 said:

OP if you didn't understand the terms, why did you sign it anyway? Did you ask a solicitor? if not why not?
Asking a lender about your mortgage is akin to asking a monkey rote reading the T+Cs to you. They cannot deviate from what's written in your offer. 

OP it appears your clutching at straws. By all means make a complaint, but your biggest defence is also your biggest weakness. Saying you didn't understand will likely be frowned upon by the ombudsman. 

Finally OP, we're not here to give you what you want to hear and ignoring sound advice already given and copying and pasting text from Mr Google is not going to get you anywhere

If you see my last reply to monetxchange I said:

"That's the whole point of not understanding, you think you know but you in fact don't. So saying I should have been aware to look up particular things is paradoxical."

So because of that, we signed, having a different understanding than the facts, but of course not actually understanding. I don't understand your comment about asking a lender about your mortgage.

I already said in my OP that I did make a complaint. I am well aware you are not here to give me what I want to hear. Ironically you are telling me to stop using Google information, when the previous respondent told me I should have Googled.

I'm not clutching at straws. I'm presenting the facts. But it appears you are assuming I have an ulterior motive behind this (I don't). This has all become pointless. An exercise in people coming on simply to be critical without offering any reliable information that will help. I appreciate those who have replied with the right heart. But this is going nowhere.

the ulterior motive ultimately will be compo is it not? Or do you out of the goodness of your own heart only seek an apology with no financial compensation?

OP if you searched for mis sold threads on here and you fill find most if not all have not come back with a happy ending on engaging legal/ ombudsman route. 

Memory can be biased as well. You may have understood at the time but years later your crying foul because you can't remember. 

What reliable help were you hoping for from an internet forum full of strangers with not being given all the information on 'your' understanding? We cannot read your mind nor grasp how confused you are with your mortgage

put yourself in a judges position, borrower now crying foul for a mis sold mortgage which they didn't understand at the at the time and waited 11 years to bring their case. No documentation of seeking solicitor clarification of terms. 

As they say, if it isn't written down, it didn't happen. Are you financial difficulty, is this why you are wanting to wriggle out of your mortgage? 

Learning_Curve

csgohan4 said:

Learning_Curve said:

csgohan4 said:

OP if you didn't understand the terms, why did you sign it anyway? Did you ask a solicitor? if not why not?
Asking a lender about your mortgage is akin to asking a monkey rote reading the T+Cs to you. They cannot deviate from what's written in your offer. 

OP it appears your clutching at straws. By all means make a complaint, but your biggest defence is also your biggest weakness. Saying you didn't understand will likely be frowned upon by the ombudsman. 

Finally OP, we're not here to give you what you want to hear and ignoring sound advice already given and copying and pasting text from Mr Google is not going to get you anywhere

If you see my last reply to monetxchange I said:

"That's the whole point of not understanding, you think you know but you in fact don't. So saying I should have been aware to look up particular things is paradoxical."

So because of that, we signed, having a different understanding than the facts, but of course not actually understanding. I don't understand your comment about asking a lender about your mortgage.

I already said in my OP that I did make a complaint. I am well aware you are not here to give me what I want to hear. Ironically you are telling me to stop using Google information, when the previous respondent told me I should have Googled.

I'm not clutching at straws. I'm presenting the facts. But it appears you are assuming I have an ulterior motive behind this (I don't). This has all become pointless. An exercise in people coming on simply to be critical without offering any reliable information that will help. I appreciate those who have replied with the right heart. But this is going nowhere.

the ulterior motive ultimately will be compo is it not? Or do you out of the goodness of your own heart only seek an apology with no financial compensation?

OP if you searched for mis sold threads on here and you fill find most if not all have not come back with a happy ending on engaging legal/ ombudsman route. 

Memory can be biased as well. You may have understood at the time but years later your crying foul because you can't remember. 

What reliable help were you hoping for from an internet forum full of strangers with not being given all the information on 'your' understanding? We cannot read your mind nor grasp how confused you are with your mortgage

No. So you are doing what I said, assuming. I told you I have no ulterior motive. Please don't project onto me what you may have experienced from others or use sarcasm, there's no need for that. Can't people be nice these days?

As I explained in my OP, I returned the money to them that we borrowed and they gave it back. So what I want to do is be able to repay the amount borrowed and for it to be finished with.

"OP if you searched for mis sold threads on here and you fill find most if not all have not come back with a happy ending on engaging legal/ ombudsman route."

Thank you for that information.

"Memory can be biased as well. You may have understood at the time but years later your crying foul because you can't remember."

It's not a question of not remembering, it's a question of having an understanding different than the facts, that was in my head that means I didn't understand the implications of what we were signing.

I was hoping that in posting here, people would be polite and helpful (what reason do they have not to be - if my thread in some way annoys them, they can stay off it) and that someone would have some specific knowledge form a reputable source that would help with this. Clearly I hoped for too much.

Learning_Curve

So, unless someone has something that will actually help, I am logging off now and leaving the thread. Thank you for your replies.

Tigsteroonie

Learning_Curve said:

I don't know why you are saying that. If I didn't want anyone else to reply I wouldn't have posted. I can only respond wit hthe information I have ascertained. I already said I contacted solicitors. Why are you being so hostile? There's no need for such a comment at all.

So you've already contacted solicitors. All we can give on here are opinions, and you don't seem to like those.

Please post back when you are successful in your claim, as your experience may help others who are also looking for facts and experience rather than opinions.

davidmcn

Learning_Curve said:

monetxchange said:

Agree, the proof you claim to have is just your assertion that you didn't understand the terms. But then you signed the terms and conditions to say you understood and were happy to proceed, so what's the lender supposed to do? Research every area of your life? Lack of capacity is very hard to prove and you're sounding much more legal savvy now than I think would denote an inability to understand anything. I'm afraid claiming you didn't understand it in 2011, two years after you signed to say you did understand, isn't proof of mis selling. If that was enough, everyone could claim they didn't get it two years into a mortgage or loan and get out of it.

The lenders Ts and C's will be legally watertight so that they don't have a barrage of "I didn't understand" claims against them. The examples you gave relate to business loans and mortgages, not the equity loan you have so aren't applicable. The law works on the premise of what the law is in statue, not how you read it or think it applies. Any judge you come before will be following established legal precedent, not if they have sympathy for you.

I'm aware of the government schemes, am in one myself. It's a little naive to think they're designed to help you out getting on the ladder - they're packaged as that but at their heart they're to make money for them too. A very quick Google would have shown this at the time of taking it out.

You signed to say you understood, I really do feel money would be wasted on solicitors chasing this (work in a legal field). What's the reality of your financial situation now? Isn't it better to get this nailed down and work out how to budget your way out of the bind?

I still say that the lender has the responsibility to ensure the person they are giving money to has understood

How would you propose they do that?

John_

Learning_Curve said:

Nearlyold said:

The fact that you misunderstood how the loan worked is not in itself proof that the loan was somehow miss sold, the expectation  is that "When a firm communicates information to a customer, it must take reasonable steps to do so in a way that is fair, clear and not misleading".  In other words the information provided to the customer must be provided in such a way that an "average" person with no specialist financial knowledge would reasonably be able to understand how the product worked.

Thanks, that doesn't quite fit with what I read in the FCA rule book. They have a duty to those they lend to that they understand what they are signing for. Otherwise there would be a lot of cases of misunderstanding. Please see what I posted in my previous two posts on this thread. Everyone is different.

You don’t seem to want to accept input here from people who aren’t going to agree with you. That’s your prerogative, but if so, what are you hoping to get from posting here?

If you want to raise a complaint with your lender, the do so, and allow them to complete the process.

If they do not accept your complaint, then you can take it to the FOS. If that doesn’t work then you can take the lender to court.

Another route is to write to a local paper, or Moneybox on the BBC.

John_

Learning_Curve said:

csgohan4 said:

Learning_Curve said:

csgohan4 said:

OP if you didn't understand the terms, why did you sign it anyway? Did you ask a solicitor? if not why not?
Asking a lender about your mortgage is akin to asking a monkey rote reading the T+Cs to you. They cannot deviate from what's written in your offer. 

OP it appears your clutching at straws. By all means make a complaint, but your biggest defence is also your biggest weakness. Saying you didn't understand will likely be frowned upon by the ombudsman. 

Finally OP, we're not here to give you what you want to hear and ignoring sound advice already given and copying and pasting text from Mr Google is not going to get you anywhere

If you see my last reply to monetxchange I said:

"That's the whole point of not understanding, you think you know but you in fact don't. So saying I should have been aware to look up particular things is paradoxical."

So because of that, we signed, having a different understanding than the facts, but of course not actually understanding. I don't understand your comment about asking a lender about your mortgage.

I already said in my OP that I did make a complaint. I am well aware you are not here to give me what I want to hear. Ironically you are telling me to stop using Google information, when the previous respondent told me I should have Googled.

I'm not clutching at straws. I'm presenting the facts. But it appears you are assuming I have an ulterior motive behind this (I don't). This has all become pointless. An exercise in people coming on simply to be critical without offering any reliable information that will help. I appreciate those who have replied with the right heart. But this is going nowhere.

the ulterior motive ultimately will be compo is it not? Or do you out of the goodness of your own heart only seek an apology with no financial compensation?

OP if you searched for mis sold threads on here and you fill find most if not all have not come back with a happy ending on engaging legal/ ombudsman route. 

Memory can be biased as well. You may have understood at the time but years later your crying foul because you can't remember. 

What reliable help were you hoping for from an internet forum full of strangers with not being given all the information on 'your' understanding? We cannot read your mind nor grasp how confused you are with your mortgage

No. So you are doing what I said, assuming. I told you I have no ulterior motive. Please don't project onto me what you may have experienced from others or use sarcasm, there's no need for that. Can't people be nice these days?

As I explained in my OP, I returned the money to them that we borrowed and they gave it back. So what I want to do is be able to repay the amount borrowed and for it to be finished with.

But that’s not going to happen. What you are asking for is an interest free loan over many years. Why would anyone believe that this would be a fair outcome? Everyone would like to lay back only what they borrowed, but why would any company lend on that basis? What would be in it for the lender?

Salemicus

Learning_Curve said:

Salemicus said:

People have given you their views, you have contradicted or ignored them. It doesn't seem like you want anyone else's advice or opinions - so why are you posting here?

If you are so convinced that you have been miss-sold, go get a lawyer. But, for the record, none of your "three separate proofs" remotely establish that you were miss-sold.

I don't know why you are saying that. If I didn't want anyone else to reply I wouldn't have posted. I can only respond wit hthe information I have ascertained. I already said I contacted solicitors. Why are you being so hostile? There's no need for such a comment at all.

I am asking you legitimately, not trying to be hostile - what are you trying to achieve by posting here? You are clearly not trying to get another perspective on whether you were miss-sold. You insist that you were, despite what anyone tells you. Ok - so now what?

Yes, you contacted solicitors. They told you that you weren't miss-sold, but you know best so you ignored them. Now, you've come here, people are very doubtful that you were miss-sold, but you know best so you just argue and insist you were. You don't seem to be looking for advice, because you ignore the advice you are given, so I ask again, why are you posting here?

For the record, the fact that you claim to have misunderstood the terms 2 years after you signed up doesn't at all prove you didn't understand them at the time. Nor does taking out life insurance, or having a disability. And of course you have an ulterior motive. You are trying to get out of your debts by paying a fraction of what you owe. It does you no credit to avoid the obvious truth.