Individual Room Temperature Control

Grumpy_chap

Last winter, I was looking at getting a smart temperature control for the house. 
We have a conventional gas central heating system with hot water via cylinder.  There are thermostatic radiator valves on each radiator.

The popular smart controllers look easy to fit, but (as far as I can make out) only do the same type of control as we have presently, i.e. hot water on / off or heating on/off to a central thermostat located in the hall.

Because I worked from home quite a lot, I was looking to control the temperature in each room so that I could have options such as:

• Day time weekday, work away from home, whole house off (easy)
• Day time weekday, work at home, warm in the study and kitchen, cooler in living rooms & bedrooms
• Evening weekday and weekends, warmer in the living rooms, cooler in the study

To make this work, I was looking for wi-fi enabled thermostatic radiator valves so that each valve could have the set temperature changed with a relatively high frequency. 
I managed to find some battery operated radiator valves but was not comfortable with going ahead with those because I did not think the battery would last very long and I'd get fed up for ever swapping batteries.  My reasoning is that the wi-fi part does not need to take much energy, but the turning the screw to set the revised temperature is quite energy-intensive, especially when turning down against a warm valve.

In the end we never did anything, but the idea still remains and this winter I will be working from home a lot more, so the benefit will be increased.

I hope I have explained what I wish to achieve suitably clearly and wonder if there is a way to achieve that.  If there is a main-powered wi-fi enabled thermostatic radiator valve would seem really straightforward, but I simply cannot find such a product.

I would want a solution that avoids re-plumbing or re-wiring in a big way.

I don't think I am trying to do something that no-one has thought of before, but there does not seem to be an off-the-shelf solution either.  Does anyone have any ideas please?

dreamypuma

I'd suggest getting Dragon Wiser. We had this installed last year in our three floor home. It works well, allowing us to heat individual room on demand and in isolation. I've always worked from home, so from an energy efficiency perspective, this level of control is essential.

The TRVs are battery powered, and controlled wirelessly. After one year I have only changed the batteries on one of seven TRVs. So no real issue there. The TRVs are simple to install yourself.

The programmer is theoretically a DIY job, howerver we got our electrician to fit this. Literally took him 10mins.

Kits are currently on offer at Amazon starting at around £110. They are usually on offer during black Friday. Additional TRVs can be had for as little as £32 when on offer. (Reminds me, I need one more)

matelodave

I think you'll find that the batteries would last at least a year, possibly more so it's not exactly an onerous chore.

 I've got eight wireless programmable stats which have their batteries replaced regularly - they will last a couple of years but it's easier to do it when I put the clocks back in October (they dont automatically adjust for summer/winter). It takes about 10 seconds to change the batteries and a minute or so to change the clock - at say 2 minutes a unit = 16 minutes (probably less) once a year. I cant say that it's blighted my life and it's a sight less aggro than stringing power cables around the room to each thermostatic rad rad valve.

I've got underfloor heating and the room stats control the flow to the floor loops in each room via thermal actuators on the distribution manifiolds. I guess if you really wanted to faff around with cables and controls you could fit an actuator to each valve connected to a mains powered wireless receiver or even just a programmable or wifi thermostat.

Cardew

I see all the requirements that the OP, and many others, want; plus the ability to remotely control the heating in their house when they are on holiday in the Australian outback.

Why does it have to be so complicated? Is it so difficult to walk round the house and operate a TRV as required?

If you really can't manage, or are out of the country, get your Butler to operate the heating. My Butler has been with the family for years and is such a snob, so has delegated to the head footman.

Talldave

It's not a massive requirement and is easy to achieve with currently available tech.  If, for a bit of cash outlay, you can configure your house to better reflect the comfort levels you require, then why not?

I rent so haven't been able to modify our system much, but a couple of wireless temperature senors linked to a programmable thermostat has improved on a system that was basically "leave the boiler running and wait for TRVs to shut each room off".  Heatmiser who's stuff I have used even do a wireless door sensor that can detect open doors and shut off the heating.  That would be something I would instantly incorporate if we owned this place, as the kitchen UFH often kicks in if the patio doors are open and it cools down a little.  The ability to tweak the heating from my tablet whilst sat on the sofa beats running off to a cupboard and remembering how the interface on the thermostat works!

Grumpy_chap

dreamypuma said:

I'd suggest getting Dragon Wiser.
I've always worked from home, so from an energy efficiency perspective, this level of control is essential.

I saw the Drayton Wiser system last year and it seemed to be the best of the lot. 
I was put off by the battery power, and still very hesitant for the same reason.
Do you have the settings to screw the valves in / out a couple of times a day for each room?

Your driver is the same as mine, so I imagine you would be operating in a similar fashion.

Cardew said:

holiday in the Australian outback.

Why does it have to be so complicated? Is it so difficult to walk round the house and operate a TRV as required?

Holiday sadly cancelled this year because of Covid-19, especially I don't even think Australia would allow me in.
Adjusting the TRV's the way I want would be several times a day and to do that manually, well, it just won't happen.

Grumpy_chap

Mickey666 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I was put off by the battery power, and still very hesitant for the same reason.

Mains power would certainly eliminate the need for batteries but I wonder how many people (or rather, what percentage of users) would be happy with have TRVs that needed to be plugged into the mains somewhere?

I don't know the answer, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the manufacturers of such things have spent considerable time and effort researching their markets . . . which might explain the apparent predominance of battery-operated TRVs compares with mains-operated ones.

Well, I have plug sockets pretty much everywhere, so that would be a one visit fit-and-forget change to install.  I don't think there is a single TRV location that is more than 1m from a plug socket.
I do not have simple access to the TRV locations because of furniture and stuff.  So, if the battery needs changing, then it means actually getting back to the TRV which is a right old faff and puts me off.
It would be very easy for the TRVs to have battery or mains options (using an adaptor).  Most things do seem to have the two options.  I don't even mind paying extra for the plug adaptor.
I was sufficiently keen on the Wiser system last year to even have e-mailed Drayton to ask.
For now, the lack of a mains option is really off-putting.
The manufacturers never asked me!

matelodave

I guess you could get hold of a wifi TRY and see if it's possible to bypass the battery with an external power supply - it shouldn't be everso difficult to drill a small hole and solder a couple of wires onto the battery contacts and route them to a plugtop power supply.

Grumpy_chap

I just realised as well that the main room thermostat is also battery so will not simply swap out for the room stat wired into the current system.  Plus the battery will expire at whatever the most inconvenient time is.

I cannot be the only person that wants this type of system but properly wired.  I'd even be happy if it was USB powered or POE ethernet network powered.

Talldave

Underfloor heating is more compatible with room by room control as you can have each room on a different loop and control the loops with actuators on the manifold linked to a thermostat in each room.  Newer build parts of the place we're renting have that setup, with a programmable thermostat hard wired back to a control panel adjacent to the manifold.  Each room therefore has its own heating control.  Nothing wireless.  If you use thermostats that can be networked, you can configure them all from an app, which is a little easier than running around the house.

matelodave

My underfloor heating was installed before wifi or networked stats were available so mine are all wireless.

I've got 17 floor loops configured as eight zones (rooms). There are two manifolds, one in the utility room for the kitchen, dining room and bathroom and a second in the hall for the hall, bathroom and three bedrooms. Each manifold has a manifold controller connected to the zone actuators and wireless receivers. 

Each zone (room) has it's own programmable stat which not only controls the the actuators for the floor loops but enables the manifold controller to turn on the heating unit and circulating pump as well. Therefore any room that calls for heat will turn on the heating system. The room temperatures and timings are programmed to suit the room utilisation Bathroom and bedroom in the mornings and evenings), Study during the day, Lounge all day and the kitchen and hall with background heat. The spare room and dining room are set quite low unless we are using them

If I was doing it now then I'd have it all networked but I'd still have battery powered wireless stats to avoid having loads of wiring all over the place and to give me the flexibility of locating the stats in the most suitable locations.