Primary employer trying to force me to leave second job

Sea_Shell

I'd be worried that pubs maybe forced to close again in the weeks/months ahead.   So I'd stick with the care home job, if push comes to shove.

Like you say, it's an odd (and possibly unprecedented situation), especially considering what other staff may get up to in their spare time.

gettingtheresometime

getmore4less said:

Here are the numbers since beginning July  for COVID-19 in care homes    & workplace that include pubs and loads of other work places  wk32 & food outlets(started week 32)
care homes have been topping the list of outbreaks since march until wk 36( 31 August and 6 September) when going back to work and eating out  has taken over, schools will probably pick up soon.
(wk 28 is 6th 12 July)
wk28 35 28
wk29 111 24
wk30 88 26
wk31 75 37
wk32 79 37 9
wk33 67 31 12
wk34 65 23 8
wk35 43 32 19
wk36 35 34 49

If they are saying you can't work they may have to put you on medical suspension(full pay) as they are refusing to let you work on their own medical assessment as being a medical risk.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18/part/VII/crossheading/suspension-on-medical-grounds


To reduce the risk for care home no one that works there should go out to eat of have school age kids living with them.

Why would they put the OP on a medical suspension? The OP is not ill nor has a medical condition that would be made worse by working in the Care Home - it's the fact that they work, in a 2nd job capacity, that is considered too high a risk for their primary employer's liking.

Andy_L

shellyboot said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

I think this thread leads onto lots of interesting questions

I can understand the POV of the Care Home if furlough ends and the OP is too much of a risk to employ and the care home can't afford them, but...

I tend to agree that it probably ought to be treated as a medical suspension rather than sacking/resignation/breach of contract and...

care home workers probably shouldn't go out to shop or eat and shouldn't live with school age children (or anybody else basically) and get paid !!!!!! wages for doing so.

It's a complete mess and I don't see it getting better any time soon.

(But I agree with whoever said a care home may be a better bet than the pub - if the OP was absolutely forced to make a choice).

Thank you, that is why I posted on here because it is such a bizarre situation that I'm not sure what laws cover me or go against me. I can understand the conflict of interest, but can an employer do a conflict of interest after i have worked the second job for 4 years. Almost a retrospective conflict of interest 🤔   
I have explained that I am in the kitchen in the pub away from general public, I have always been very open with them about the work I am doing at the pub. Whereas other staff have been on holiday or can socialise every night of the week if they wanted to. 
It's so confusing. 

It wasn't a conflict of interest for the past 4 years. It has now, arguably, become one.
Ultimately, if you cannot agree that it isn't and you refuse to give up the 2nd job then they could dismiss you for the breach of your employment contract. As you've worked there long enough you could then take them to an employment tribunal 

getmore4less

shellyboot said:

Thank you for all your comments, they are giving me lots of points of view on this and that's what I need. I completely understand the nursing homes point of view when it comes to the risk to their business.
On the other hand, in the pub I work in the kitchen with 2/3 other people on shift. In the nursing home I work in the kitchen with 1 other person and I am not allowed to enter the main building or use staff rest rooms, there are separate ones for kitchen staff. So my point of view is that although I have 2 jobs, I am not going to tesco where there are lots of people, i do it all online, I don't go to socialise in pubs whereas so staff would. I'm not living with anybody while some health care staff have large families and children. 
I am just hoping to find out what happens when it comes to employment law. Its an existing second job which they are aware of so I wonder if they can do the conflict of interest route. I'm sure they probably can.
On the other hand,  should they be making the decision themselves that it isn't safe for me to go back rather than putting it on me to walk away from one of my employments.

you are going to be lower risk than other workers in the establishment that live in households with kids or others going to work as long as the pub is following the guidelines.

The only way to fully protect cares homes if for the key workers to move in and have barrier control  to all outside contacts and deliveries.

KatrinaWaves

getmore4less said:

shellyboot said:

Thank you for all your comments, they are giving me lots of points of view on this and that's what I need. I completely understand the nursing homes point of view when it comes to the risk to their business.
On the other hand, in the pub I work in the kitchen with 2/3 other people on shift. In the nursing home I work in the kitchen with 1 other person and I am not allowed to enter the main building or use staff rest rooms, there are separate ones for kitchen staff. So my point of view is that although I have 2 jobs, I am not going to tesco where there are lots of people, i do it all online, I don't go to socialise in pubs whereas so staff would. I'm not living with anybody while some health care staff have large families and children. 
I am just hoping to find out what happens when it comes to employment law. Its an existing second job which they are aware of so I wonder if they can do the conflict of interest route. I'm sure they probably can.
On the other hand,  should they be making the decision themselves that it isn't safe for me to go back rather than putting it on me to walk away from one of my employments.

you are going to be lower risk than other workers in the establishment that live in households with kids or others going to work as long as the pub is following the guidelines.

The only way to fully protect cares homes if for the key workers to move in and have barrier control  to all outside contacts and deliveries.

Yes but an employment contract can have clauses about additional work. It can’t say ‘you can’t go to the pub’ 

I 100% agree that the govt advice and rules is causing this miss match. You can go to the pub but you can’t have more than 6 people in a group socialising?! Okay whatever. Everyone back to work no more furlough but no more than 6 in a social situation... 🙄

but anyway that doesn’t help the OP. The care home knows about the extra work and they are doing what is in their power to keep their residents safe. They can’t stop their staff licking every surface in site whilst not on shift, they can’t stop them socialising in huge groups or going to the pub. They can’t make them
wear masks in supermarkets. But they can say her second job is a risk factor. 

getmore4less

The care home should have measures in place that protect the residents where ever possible

Kitchen staff don't need contact with other workers or residents there should be barrier practice in place. 

How many cases and deaths did this care home have since March?

If they don't need you they could just make you redundant.

shellyboot

getmore4less said:

The care home should have measures in place that protect the residents where ever possible

Kitchen staff don't need contact with other workers or residents there should be barrier practice in place. 

How many cases and deaths did this care home have since March?

If they don't need you they could just make you redundant.

No deaths or positive cases in the staff or residents. All get tested once a week and I would be tested before returning to work

MoneySeeker1

shellyboot said:

getmore4less said:

The care home should have measures in place that protect the residents where ever possible

Kitchen staff don't need contact with other workers or residents there should be barrier practice in place. 

How many cases and deaths did this care home have since March?

If they don't need you they could just make you redundant.

No deaths or positive cases in the staff or residents. All get tested once a week and I would be tested before returning to work

Which brings up another question - ie what testing method would they be planning on using on you?

Would it be that invasive nose and throat swab thing that people have been complaining about? - ie because it's so uncomfortable/maybe even painful? Your case to call - but, having read peoples comments about what it's like being on the receiving end of that sort of test - I'd be refusing to do that myself and a fair number of other people would too (quite apart from the question of "If it's so easy to catch - then how come they are doing such an invasive type of test?"

elsien

All a test proves is that you didn't have covid on the day of the test. No more, no less. In terms of preventing risk it's not particularly meaningful unless it's positive.
Can you ask the care home to do a thorough risk assessment around your particular circumstances - make them evidence their assertion and think about it properly? You're not getting up close and personal with residents in the same way that carers do but in your kitchen role is there a higher risk of passing on the virus in other ways? How can that be mitigated?
Part of my job involves going into care homes so I have seen the impact of Covid in some places. But some care homes have reacted (understandably so) by being overly restrictive in ways that aren't necessarily lawful/in line with government guidance. 
So if the care home is saying you are too high a risk, make them evidence it properly. These are the risk assessments they should be carrying out as a matter of course anyway. 

shellyboot

elsien said:

All a test proves is that you didn't have covid on the day of the test. No more, no less. In terms of preventing risk it's not particularly meaningful unless it's positive.
Can you ask the care home to do a thorough risk assessment around your particular circumstances - make them evidence their assertion and think about it properly? You're not getting up close and personal with residents in the same way that carers do but in your kitchen role is there a higher risk of passing on the virus in other ways? How can that be mitigated?
Part of my job involves going into care homes so I have seen the impact of Covid in some places. But some care homes have reacted (understandably so) by being overly restrictive in ways that aren't necessarily lawful/in line with government guidance. 
So if the care home is saying you are too high a risk, make them evidence it properly. These are the risk assessments they should be carrying out as a matter of course anyway. 

Thank you, I have had my individual risk assessment for when I return to work but it only mentions actions that me and my employer need to take to reduce the risk, doesn't mention that I have a second job. So I will need to ask them to review it if they ever did let me return whilst having a second job (which is highly unlikely). All staff at the nursing home, including kitchen staff are wearing masks continuously and additional handwashing and sanitising introduced. I'm not sure if they can deem my kitchen role any higher risk than the staff that are in the main communal building of the nursing home but that sounds like the angle they are trying to use.