I don't understand the logic in this speed ticket letter from the police

gilbutre

So I was caught going a bit too fast and got that letter proposing either a course (option #1) or a fine (option #2):


But, although I have 120 days to book/pay/complete the course if I take option #1, I only have 28 days if I take option #2:


It says here, after 28 days the matter will go to court if I have not sent my driving licence.
That is, if I chose option #2. But how the heck can they know that I chose option #2 and not option #1? Since option #1 allows to wait much more time without doing anything.
Not sure if I explained clearly the incoherence here. To those who did get it, please let me know if you can think of a way to make sense of it, or if really their letter is contradictory.

tacpot12

I agree the letter is unclear, because as you have spotted the don't know that you have selected Option 1 until 120 days have passed, unless the letter says somewhere that you have 28 days to book a Speed Awareness Course. I would book the course within 28 days to avoid them saying you have chosen option 2.

sweetsand

Dear OP
It looks as though you have a max time to make a decision, IE take the course or pay the fine. Therefore, if you decide to take the course it has to be booked before the fine, send licence date but you have 128 days in total for that.
Get it over and done with and rest your mind. Most people would take the education route as did some work matets they said it opened their eyes. Thankfully I've been lucky as has my OH and children but it is easy to stray over the limit or get caught out in newer areas

ATB

x

DoaM

Turn the page to find how to book your course. Did you?

CocoM2020

So it’s 28 days from the date of the letter not date of offence? Sorry if sounds ignorant as that letter is really confusing. (Know my Dad did the course - he said it was not as bad as he expected - the I told you so from my Mum was worse) 

williamgriffin

DoaM said:

Turn the page to find how to book your course. Did you?

Would be the sensible thing to do. 

williamgriffin

sweetsand said:

Dear OP
It looks as though you have a max time to make a decision, IE take the course or pay the fine. Therefore, if you decide to take the course it has to be booked before the fine, send licence date but you have 128 days in total for that.
Get it over and done with and rest your mind. Most people would take the education route as did some work matets they said it opened their eyes. Thankfully I've been lucky as has my OH and children but it is easy to stray over the limit or get caught out in newer areas

ATB

x

OP, please don't follow this advice as it's incorrect. 

TooManyPoints

It's quite straightforward.

If you want to accept the fixed penalty (FP) you must do so within 28 days. If you don't the offer will lapse. You then have another three months to accept the course offer (most people's preferred option) by booking it, paying for it and successfully completing it. If you do not then that offer will also lapse. Only when both of those deadlines have passed will court action be initiated. The police know who they have made both offers to (courses are offered up to (Limit + 10% +9mph)) and will not begin court action against those who have had the offer of a course before four months have elapsed. They have six months from the date of the offence to do this and in most areas they take all of this anyway regardless of  which, if any, out-of-court disposals are offered. This is done by issuing a Single Justice Procedure Notice (SJPN) together with a written charge. The driver may receive his SJPN a week or two after the six month deadline and this is legal provided it is raised before the six month deadline. 

The reason for the different deadlines is that the Fixed Penalty procedure and timescales are enshrined in law (Road Traffic Offenders' Act s51) whereas the course offer is purely an offer that most forces in England & Wales (but not Scotland) make. All they have to do is to ensure they have sufficient time to take court proceedings should it be declined.

If you have a formal offer of a course with the 120 day deadline you will not be prosecuted before that has passed. In the unlikely event that you are you can argue that an abuse of process has taken place.

I agree that the letter you have is not very clear. It is clear to me only because I know about these things.

gilbutre

TooManyPoints said:

It's quite straightforward.

If you want to accept the fixed penalty (FP) you must do so within 28 days. If you don't the offer will lapse. You then have another three months to accept the course offer (most people's preferred option) by booking it, paying for it and successfully completing it. If you do not then that offer will also lapse. Only when both of those deadlines have passed will court action be initiated. The police know who they have made both offers to (courses are offered up to (Limit + 10% +9mph)) and will not begin court action against those who have had the offer of a course before four months have elapsed. They have six months from the date of the offence to do this and in most areas they take all of this anyway regardless of  which, if any, out-of-court disposals are offered. This is done by issuing a Single Justice Procedure Notice (SJPN) together with a written charge. The driver may receive his SJPN a week or two after the six month deadline and this is legal provided it is raised before the six month deadline. 

The reason for the different deadlines is that the Fixed Penalty procedure and timescales are enshrined in law (Road Traffic Offenders' Act s51) whereas the course offer is purely an offer that most forces in England & Wales (but not Scotland) make. All they have to do is to ensure they have sufficient time to take court proceedings should it be declined.

If you have a formal offer of a course with the 120 day deadline you will not be prosecuted before that has passed. In the unlikely event that you are you can argue that an abuse of process has taken place.

I agree that the letter you have is not very clear. It is clear to me only because I know about these things.

Thanks! Just to recap though:
1. If I take my time and book a course after 28 days, it's still all good for me - no prosecution correct?
2. If I respond to them after 28 days stating I pick option #2 (the £100 fine, instead of the course), then I'll be prosecuted also correct?

TooManyPoints

1. Correct.

2. You can't pick option 2 after 28 days. The offer has lapsed. If you send in your £100 and licence it will be returned to you unprocessed (they may, if they feel particularly charitable, give you a few days' grace). They will then wait until 120 days have passed and, if you haven't done the course, then sometime between then and six months after the offence (usually close to the six month mark) they will initiate court proceedings.

facade

gilbutre said:

1. If I take my time and book a course after 28 days, it's still all good for me - no prosecution correct?
2. If I respond to them after 28 days stating I pick option #2 (the £100 fine, instead of the course), then I'll be prosecuted also correct?

1- correct, but there is a wait for space on a course, and you have to have done the course in the 120 days, don't leave it too late.

2- Strictly yes, but if you reply a couple of days late the least work for them is to accept the fine, but they don't have to.

It is not receiving the driving licence that is the problem, they may return your fine and try and see you in court, depends on whether the Computer says No. (No-one really knows why you have to send it off, your driving record is all on computer, but if you don't the penalty is DEATH))