Lost train ticket

zoes319

My grandson, who is 17, bought a return train ticket from Rochester on 19 August  2020 to travel to his part time job in Crayford which involves a train change at Dartford, supported by his  student railcard. That evening, on his return home, he discovered he had lost his ticket but he had a photo of the purchase and his rail card on his phone. He was aggressively forced to pay a £21 fine in order to continue his travel home as we understand it is the physical ticket that gives the permission to travel. We were extremely concerned about his potential vulnerability if he had not been able to board the train. Is there a tried and tested argument that the fine should not have been imposed. eg If he can prove that he purchased the ticket is the issue captured by the unfair terms in contracts legislation?

bradders1983

Quite sure the National Conditions of Carriage demand you have the physical ticket or an acceptable e-ticket, and with railcards they have to be presented when asked.

The guys on the UK Rail Forums are very knowledgeable on this though, worth asking there 

ElephantBoy57

zoes319 said:

Is there a tried and tested argument that the fine should not have been imposed. eg If he can prove that he purchased the ticket is the issue captured by the unfair terms in contracts legislation?

He could have given the ticket to someone else, I hope he learns not to lose his ticket in the future.

Manxman_in_exile

Your grandson was basically committing an offence if he'd bought a physical paper ticket and could not produce it on demand.  Any intention he may or may not have had is irrelevant - just not being able to produce a valid ticket is a criminal offence in itself - nothing to do with unfair contract terms.  Mere proof of purchase is not the same as providing a valid ticket on demand.  As suggested above, he could have given it to somebody else and they were using it - that's why a ticket has to be produced on demand.

He should look at it as a valuable life lesson.  Many people (and you may be one of them?) do not seem to appreciate the potentially serious consequences of travelling on a train without a valid ticket - even after accidentally losing it.  And if the train operating company suspected that he was doing it intentionally to avoid payment (eg he'd given it to somebody else to use as well) he could have ended up being prosecuted for an offence carrying a criminal record.

However, if you want to explore this further, try the forum mentioned in the first reply above:  https://www.railforums.co.uk/forums/disputes-prosecutions.152/

They're very good and know their stuff inside out.

EDIT:  One of the lessons for everybody is never let your ticket out of your possession or discard it until you have finished your journey and exited the barriers, or even left the station.  Never leave it on the train!

Hasbeen

zoes319 said:

My grandson, who is 17, bought a return train ticket from Rochester on 19 August  2020 to travel to his part time job in Crayford which involves a train change at Dartford, supported by his  student railcard. That evening, on his return home, he discovered he had lost his ticket but he had a photo of the purchase and his rail card on his phone. He was aggressively forced to pay a £21 fine in order to continue his travel home as we understand it is the physical ticket that gives the permission to travel. We were extremely concerned about his potential vulnerability if he had not been able to board the train. Is there a tried and tested argument that the fine should not have been imposed. eg If he can prove that he purchased the ticket is the issue captured by the unfair terms in contracts legislation?

A peak return would be £13:10 an off peak return £7:25.

He was travelling without a ticket. He was penalty charged correctly "The penalty is £20.00* or TWICE the appropriate single fare from the station where you started your journey to either the next station at which the train stops, or the station you leave the train**, whichever is the greater amount."

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/187936.aspx

The single fair was £10:60 x 2 =£21:60

Sorry do not understand your statement of "We were extremely concerned about his potential vulnerability if he had not been able to board the train."
He did board the train? That is why he had to pay.

People do not really understand a ticket is like money, would you lose £7 or £13 out of your wallet?

Sorry, but he should be more careful in future.

stragglebod

The fact that he was offered the opportunity to pay a penalty fare instead of being reported for prosecution shows that the inspector was giving him the benefit of the doubt. Would you prefer him to go to court and get a criminal record?