employment law

Stexxx

i need some advice ref.employment law. after 7 years of working for my boss and now at a tribunal i have to prove i was employed, he now says i was self employed which is wrong. i worked 15 hours a week for £112 a week. i never received wage slips and there's no contract but i did work for him and i did earn £112, i was paid cash of £79 on saturday's and he said the rest was for tax and national insurance. he did declare my £79 a week but he has used the words 'Casual Labour' and not used my name. we have being going through this tribunal since lock down and now all of a sudden he says i wasn't employed, i was self employed. i am not interested in compensation but my solicitor is at a loss. how do i proceed? how do i prove he is lying, regards and thanks 

Diamandis

There's information here to decide whether you were employed or self employed. 

https://www.gov.uk/employment-status/selfemployed-contractor

You need to show that these points did not apply to you. 

AskAsk

i think it would be difficult to prove you were employed if you don't have any contract or payslips. 

he could claim you worked on a self employed basis, but then why has he said he kept money for tax and NI as you would have to pay that and not him if you were self employed.

oh_really

Ask him to provide any of the invoices you have submitted in the time you've worked there or has he conveniently destroyed all 7 years worth.
I think a tribunal would see through this and I would start to raise concern over your solicitor.

Savvy_Sue

I'd check your personal tax record with HMRC to check whether your tax and NI have been passed over to them.

Ultimately it's HMRC's decision whether or not someone is self-employed or not. And he'd be paying the penalties for getting it wrong. 

Like ohreally I'm not sure why this hasn't occurred to the solicitor. 

MalMonroe

You say you were in the middle of a Tribunal so you must have been in contact with Acas? Hasn't someone there been able to advise you about this because they advocate mediation prior to Tribunal. You really should have prepared your case well before now if the tribunal is already in progress. Your solicitor should have advised you about all this and helped to prepare the correct documentation prior to Tribunal and he/she should definitely NOT be at a loss! I hope you aren't paying him/her for their services. 

Tribunals are awful, I've been through one. You will never win if you are not thoroughly prepared. If you do not have any paperwork to prove anything, it will be just your word against his and it sounds like he may have the paperwork to prove what he is saying. If you didn't even have a contract, I don't think you are going to get anywhere with this Tribunal. 

The person you should be asking for help is your solicitor. If you are not interested in chasing compensation, it would be better for you to withdraw because from what you say, you do not have any proof of your claims and are just trying to get this employer to admit to lying. At Tribunal, judges  ask what you wish the outcome to be. I'm not sure that 'making my employer admit to lying' is a valid outcome.

To be honest, I think that judges at the Tribunal will make mincemeat out of you. (I say this as someone who has been through the ordeal of it all - and I was prepared with the appropriate paperwork but was still put through the wringer.)  Get out now, while you can. And never work for that employer again.

Xbigman

Can you confirm that figure of £112 a week is right? If it is £112 then there is no tax or NI to pay on those wages, unless you had another job in which case there would be tax to pay but no NI. Even if you had another job it would be £89 after tax. 
Check you NI record. If that was your only earnings that's below the level where you get a NI credit towards your pension, which could be an issue in later life. 
There's also the issue of the minimum wage. £112 for 15 hours is below the minimum wage. £79 is massively below. 
All of these issues should have been dealt with prior to the tribunal because they are what your compensation request should be based on.


Darren

Brynsam

Stexxx said:

i need some advice ref.employment law. i am not interested in compensation but my solicitor is at a loss. how do i proceed? 

How do you proceed? With a better solicitor.

But if you aren't doing this for compensation, what's the point of it all? Move on instead of putting yourself through pointless anguish.

Undervalued

Diamandis said:

There's information here to decide whether you were employed or self employed. 

https://www.gov.uk/employment-status/selfemployed-contractor

You need to show that these points did not apply to you. 

Although such guides can be useful, keep in mind that there have been situations where HMRC have decided one thing for tax purposes but an employment tribunal has taken the opposite view for employment law (e.g. unfair dismissal) purposes. Neither is binding on the other.