Scottish Widows refusing to let me transfer my pension to a SIPP - What can I do?

Novice_investor101

Sounds like one of the older type pensions that are made up of segments. & each segment contains a pro rata proportion of each fund. To do a partial transfer would mean selling a number of segments to cash & as each one contains a bit of the property fund, that’s not possible. 

lookatbowen

Brynsam said:

lookatbowen said:

Their lack of "not knowing the answer each time" I call them and the lack of any material on their website explaining the situation, makes this whole thing very frustrating. 

The explanation has been on their website since ...

I wasn't able to include the link you shared.... but I had a look at it. 
 Thank you Brynsam for the link. This is very similar to the letter I received in April 2020, where it actually stated the SW Property Pension fund that was restricted. (none of the others are mentioned). 
Nowhere in either letter or website text does it say I can't transfer or partially transfer my other three "non-restricted funds" out of my SW pension to another pension or SIPP. 

• SW SSgA North America Equity Index Pension - ????
• SW Schroder US Smaller Companies Pension - ????
  
• Scottish Widows High Income Bond Pension - ????
  
• Scottish Widows Property Pension (Restricted)

If the letter had mentioned the other three funds I wouldn't be on here asking why?

Marcon

lookatbowen said:

Brynsam said:

lookatbowen said:

Their lack of "not knowing the answer each time" I call them and the lack of any material on their website explaining the situation, makes this whole thing very frustrating. 

The explanation has been on their website since ...

I wasn't able to include the link you shared.... but I had a look at it. 
 Thank you Brynsam for the link. This is very similar to the letter I received in April 2020, where it actually stated the SW Property Pension fund that was restricted. (none of the others are mentioned). 
Nowhere in either letter or website text does it say I can't transfer or partially transfer my other three "non-restricted funds" out of my SW pension to another pension or SIPP. 

• SW SSgA North America Equity Index Pension - ????
• SW Schroder US Smaller Companies Pension - ????
  
• Scottish Widows High Income Bond Pension - ????
  
• Scottish Widows Property Pension (Restricted)

If the letter had mentioned the other three funds I wouldn't be on here asking why?

Instead of going round in circles, raise a formal complaint using the process outlined on SW's website. Don't complain about the property fund restriction; it'll get you nowhere and your circular motion will continue. Complain about the different answers/lack of answers you've been receiving. If you can provide a short summary of when you contacted them, what you asked and what you were told (as accurate as possible and as unemotional as possible - both will facilitate the process) and ask them to provide a definitive answer about why it is not possible to effect a partial transfer of the non-property funds, that should flush out an accurate response. 

lookatbowen

Marcon said:

lookatbowen said:

Brynsam said:

lookatbowen said:

Their lack of "not knowing the answer each time" I call them and the lack of any material on their website explaining the situation, makes this whole thing very frustrating. 

The explanation has been on their website since ...

I wasn't able to include the link you shared.... but I had a look at it. 
 Thank you Brynsam for the link. This is very similar to the letter I received in April 2020, where it actually stated the SW Property Pension fund that was restricted. (none of the others are mentioned). 
Nowhere in either letter or website text does it say I can't transfer or partially transfer my other three "non-restricted funds" out of my SW pension to another pension or SIPP. 

• SW SSgA North America Equity Index Pension - ????
• SW Schroder US Smaller Companies Pension - ????
  
• Scottish Widows High Income Bond Pension - ????
  
• Scottish Widows Property Pension (Restricted)

If the letter had mentioned the other three funds I wouldn't be on here asking why?

Instead of going round in circles, raise a formal complaint using the process outlined on SW's website. Don't complain about the property fund restriction; it'll get you nowhere and your circular motion will continue. Complain about the different answers/lack of answers you've been receiving. If you can provide a short summary of when you contacted them, what you asked and what you were told (as accurate as possible and as unemotional as possible - both will facilitate the process) and ask them to provide a definitive answer about why it is not possible to effect a partial transfer of the non-property funds, that should flush out an accurate response. 

Yes, that is a good idea Marcon. I will do that. Thanks for the advice. 

Supercub

Do not expect a credible response for any complaint made to Scottish Widows. It is necessary to make a complaint and receive before raising the matter with the POS. The POS will not entertain a complaint unless a formal complaint has been made to Scottish Widows and answered. The problem is that LLoyds are haemorrhaging money and are refusing to transfer pensions in part or whole.  If you make a formal  transfer request  even if they refuse that now, they have to enact it after 6 months has expired or the suspension on property fund has been lifted - whichever is sooner.  They are able to value the funds and indeed they actually valued my property fund element (whist suspended) 2 days before cancelling the transfer claiming they had mistakenly understood I wanted to drawdown.  The big problem is that your fund value will decrease  for SW have essentially appropriated it for 6 months and your fees/losses over six months could be considerable. Brexit will, it is estimated wipe 25% of the value of UK stocks and up to 10% of EU stocks.  Even though SW will not transfer they can value your funds and will  transfer them free of charge to other SW funds. However, and exercise real caution here whilst the transfer maybe free there can be initial set up fees and these in some cases are exorbitant  - The situation is really one that requires through investigation by the POS.  

dunstonh

The problem is that LLoyds are haemorrhaging money and are refusing to transfer pensions in part or whole. 

We have had several CM and SW pension transfer outs recently with no issues.     

Lloyds are not haemorrhaging pension values.

The big problem is that your fund value will decrease  for SW have essentially appropriated it for 6 months and your fees/losses over six months could be considerable. 

Charges are no different as they were still factored into the unit price.    The value of the units is being updated as property values get adjusted.

 Brexit will, it is estimated wipe 25% of the value of UK stocks and up to 10% of EU stocks.

Which has nothing to do with property stocks and the drop is pure speculation.     The deal/no deal issue has already created a drag on UK equity and a lot of the Brexit issues play out in exchange rates.  So, that influences the impact.

  Even though SW will not transfer they can value your funds and will  transfer them free of charge to other SW funds. However, and exercise real caution here whilst the transfer maybe free there can be initial set up fees and these in some cases are exorbitant

The vast majority of SW pensions have no switching charges/initial charges.   It is something to check in case you are in the tiny minority that may have but it is unusual nowadays.

Do not expect a credible response for any complaint made to Scottish Widows. It is necessary to make a complaint and receive before raising the matter with the POS. The POS will not entertain a complaint unless a formal complaint has been made to Scottish Widows and answered.

And the POS cannot force Lloyds to do a partial transfer.

As it happens, property funds are starting to reopen, either already or expected to do so at the next monthly review point.

Albermarle

The problem is that LLoyds are haemorrhaging money and are refusing to transfer pensions in part or whole.  

I transferred an old SW pension ( value approx £100K) to my SIPP earlier this month . Transfer completed in 8 days . No problems.

lookatbowen

Hi Supercup, 
I was going to respond to your ridiculous response, but I was beaten by Dunstonh and Albermarle.
I have submitted a complaint to the SW ombudsum and they have responded with a reply that they are experiencing a lot of complaints and it will take time to investigate. I am not holding my breathe!
I have also been keeping an eye on the restriction list over at https://www.scottishwidows.co.uk/global/fundchanges and only recently have they started to lift some of the restrictions on the SW Property Funds. 
I am still very confused and frustrated as to way I can't access my 3 non property funds, which are not restricted in any shape or form. The SW Property Fund makes up only 8% of my total pension and yet the other 92% are effectively held hostage. It just seems completely and utterly wrong. Not to mention what potential gains (or losses) I could have had since April 2020 if I was able to transfer the 92% non-restricted funds to my SIPP. 

Cus

In the meantime you could sell all the funds except the property fund, then  put it in a SW fund(s) that is as close to what you would eventually do on your own in a SIPP?  At least that way, while you are waiting for it to be sorted, you don't feel like you are losing out.

lookatbowen

Cus said:

In the meantime you could sell all the funds except the property fund, then  put it in a SW fund(s) that is as close to what you would eventually do on your own in a SIPP?  At least that way, while you are waiting for it to be sorted, you don't feel like you are losing out.

Yes, Cus, I thought of that already, the thing is I don't want to sell all the funds, I want to partially sell 50% and put that into a SIPP and leave the other 50% in the SW funds that I have, as they are doing well. But I know I can do better with the other half. Also, why should I pay for a new fund and give some fund manager more of my hard earned money. Seems a bit daft!