No CCA with Paragon/IDEM

monkeyman1964

I am in a DMP with Payplan and have 5 debts within that.  I have requested CCA's with all of them to confirm enforcability.

2 (both with PRA) have submited requests for this information (I presume from the original OC) and have confirmed at the moment as it is in dispute, payments have been put on hold (and I have instructed Payplan of that situation).

1 more - Paragon/IDEM (~£3k), have confirmed via telephone that they requested from the original OC the CCA but admitted they dont have it anymore. I mentioned on phone that the debt was therefore unenforcable and would be halting any payments forthwith, to which he replied the debt is still owed and has been confirmed as I have been paying the debt until know and whilst they cannot pursue it legally through courts, they would still pursue it until paid and when asked what that meant, he said, phone calls, letters and visits from agents.  I asked for this to be confirmed in writing of course, but I can accept letters and phone calls but don't particularly want people at my door asking to settle debt (even though they can only ask and not do anything)........can they do the agent at door bit though ?

This debt is old (over 6 yrs as don't show up on my credit file), so should I just ignore or offer an F&F (5%) to see if they will accept ?

Can they make anything go back onto my credit file regarding this debt ?

Any guidance on what hassle they can/can't do with backing from FSO or others (I think I saw something in a thread which mentioned something or had a letter which suggested some text to prevent them from doing this)?

Any advise greatfully received.

UPDATE

Was thinking of sending the following once I get their letter back confirming the above (what do people think) ?..............

Dear Sir,

Further to my letter of 30 June 2020 and your subsequent response dated xxxxx in which you confirmed you were not able to provide me with a copy of any credit agreement from this debt within 12 working days, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, you are therefore unable to enforce this debt legally and consequently whilst this is in dispute, I will stop any further payments to my DMP provider forthwith.

May I also remind you that as there is no CCA held, you are not permitted to share my details with credit reference agencies as this constitutes a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998 and goes against the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) published Data Protection Technical Guidance: Filing defaults with credit reference agencies in 2007.

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing from this point onwards.

Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make such an appointment with you.

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard & Short Ltd [1959] 2 QB 384. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and, if you do so, you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

Failing to adhere to any of the above may result in my forming a complaint to the FCA.

I respectfully therefore request you write this debt off and that no further action will be taken by you or anyone else regarding this matter and confirm in writing to that effect.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

sourcrates

Hi,
Thats more or less ok, they can still share your data, lack of a credit agreement just denies there day in court, nothing else.
They can still chase the debt, and report to your credit file.
I think paragon may use resolve call to knock on doors, not happening at the moment due to COVID-19, but there only self employed collectors, nothing to be bothered about, you can simply ignore them.

monkeyman1964

Thanks Sourcrates - can they still report to credit reference agencies if the debt is already expired (i.e after 6 years) ? and do you know if the debt would have gone into default if I had entered into a DMP at that time or only now if that is the case ?

sourcrates

Six years after default it will vanish forever, if you are unsure of the accounts status, send a SAR to the original creditor, although information is only kept for 6 years normally.

Does the debt appear on your credit file ?

Any default date will show on there.

monkeyman1964

Thank you thanks so far for the advice.

can I go back to my DMP provider and ask them to contact Paragon to see if, given the debt is unenforceable, they will write the debt off ?

Or can Paragon employ debt collectors to try to recover the debt even though they know it is unenforceable ? What is the point in them doing that?

sourcrates

Your DMP provider won’t be interested, and it won’t be written off, yes of course paragon can, and most likely will, pass the account to a debt collector, or debt purchasing company.
Or they may not, it’s a commercial decision on their part.
They do that because that’s what they do, in the hope you will cave in.
Usually if you write and state your not paying, they soon turn their attention to someone else.

monkeyman1964

ok thanks again sourcrates for you replies.
much appreciated.

InDebted2U_2

Hello monkeyman1964. I'm in a simlar situation and wondered if you heard any more from Paragon, or found a resolution?