Diminishing returns on a private pension

Thrugelmir

LucyTheWestie said:

dunstonh said:

For example, the average family will have little money left for their future, once they have paid for the things they need today. 

But a good chunk of them will spend money on things they do not need to keep up with the Jones.   Some spend more money on a mobile phone each month than they do their pension.   They buy more x-box games or eat out constantly or change their BMW every 2-3 years.   Then claim they couldn't afford to save for retirement.

I am not sure if failure to plan or failure in expectation is fair.  In many cases, being unable to prepare for the future is probably more likely.

It very often is a failure to plan.    Or a failure to keep under review.    You often see cases like someone who started paying £30pm in 1988.    That was a good contribution back then.   However, 30 years later, they are still paying £30pm and never increased it.  That is a failure.

  The state can't afford or will not pay for your care at the end of your working life, where you have religiously been paying your taxes from day one, yet you are expected to fund your retirement, from a small pot of money,  which is constantly being stretched to its limits. 

Life expectancy has increased rapidly over the past few decades. Correspondingly care and pension provision cost is increasing. People themselves have to make a choice as to where their priorities lie. 

LucyTheWestie

Thrugelmir said:

LucyTheWestie said:

dunstonh said:

For example, the average family will have little money left for their future, once they have paid for the things they need today. 

But a good chunk of them will spend money on things they do not need to keep up with the Jones.   Some spend more money on a mobile phone each month than they do their pension.   They buy more x-box games or eat out constantly or change their BMW every 2-3 years.   Then claim they couldn't afford to save for retirement.

I am not sure if failure to plan or failure in expectation is fair.  In many cases, being unable to prepare for the future is probably more likely.

It very often is a failure to plan.    Or a failure to keep under review.    You often see cases like someone who started paying £30pm in 1988.    That was a good contribution back then.   However, 30 years later, they are still paying £30pm and never increased it.  That is a failure.

  The state can't afford or will not pay for your care at the end of your working life, where you have religiously been paying your taxes from day one, yet you are expected to fund your retirement, from a small pot of money,  which is constantly being stretched to its limits. 

Life expectancy has increased rapidly over the past few decades. Correspondingly care and pension provision cost is increasing. People themselves have to make a choice as to where their priorities lie. 

I suggest that most blue collar workers are unable to make a choice as to where their priorities lie.  Their incomes are being stretched to pay for the day to day essentials.  IMHO anyone who suggests they are wasting their money on non essentials, such as mobile phones, playstations, alcohol, cigarettes are insulting the vast proportion of the low paid and hard working British population.  Those who have managed to save a little are now seeing their investments being whittled away.

Sadly, I believe there is also a subclass of people who do waste their money, because their futures have been taken away from them.  They have no hope.  They have no money to invest in their futures.

I am not bitter or twisted when I see the investment banker who has a collection of supercars, paid for from a huge bonus, because he got lucky one day in the office.... I just know where that money came from!  My diminishing pension!!  (Do they have to give the bonus back when they have a bad day at work?) 

Prism

LucyTheWestie said:

Thrugelmir said:

LucyTheWestie said:

dunstonh said:

For example, the average family will have little money left for their future, once they have paid for the things they need today. 

But a good chunk of them will spend money on things they do not need to keep up with the Jones.   Some spend more money on a mobile phone each month than they do their pension.   They buy more x-box games or eat out constantly or change their BMW every 2-3 years.   Then claim they couldn't afford to save for retirement.

I am not sure if failure to plan or failure in expectation is fair.  In many cases, being unable to prepare for the future is probably more likely.

It very often is a failure to plan.    Or a failure to keep under review.    You often see cases like someone who started paying £30pm in 1988.    That was a good contribution back then.   However, 30 years later, they are still paying £30pm and never increased it.  That is a failure.

  The state can't afford or will not pay for your care at the end of your working life, where you have religiously been paying your taxes from day one, yet you are expected to fund your retirement, from a small pot of money,  which is constantly being stretched to its limits. 

Life expectancy has increased rapidly over the past few decades. Correspondingly care and pension provision cost is increasing. People themselves have to make a choice as to where their priorities lie. 

I suggest that most blue collar workers are unable to make a choice as to where their priorities lie.  Their incomes are being stretched to pay for the day to day essentials.  IMHO anyone who suggests they are wasting their money on non essentials, such as mobile phones, playstations, alcohol, cigarettes are insulting the vast proportion of the low paid and hard working British population.  Those who have managed to save a little are now seeing their investments being whittled away.

Sadly, I believe there is also a subclass of people who do waste their money, because their futures have been taken away from them.  They have no hope.  They have no money to invest in their futures.

I am not bitter or twisted when I see the investment banker who has a collection of supercars, paid for from a huge bonus, because he got lucky one day in the office.... I just know where that money came from!  My diminishing pension!!  (Do they have to give the bonus back when they have a bad day at work?) 

Just a little reminder, there is no way that your pension fund should be diminishing right now, especially over a period longer than a year. If it is, then it may be invested in the wrong fund but that is entirely within your control. Or maybe you are looking at a statement from earlier this year when the markets had taken a steep dive - they have recovered since.

[Deleted User]

LucyTheWestie said:

Thrugelmir said:

LucyTheWestie said:

dunstonh said:

For example, the average family will have little money left for their future, once they have paid for the things they need today. 

But a good chunk of them will spend money on things they do not need to keep up with the Jones.   Some spend more money on a mobile phone each month than they do their pension.   They buy more x-box games or eat out constantly or change their BMW every 2-3 years.   Then claim they couldn't afford to save for retirement.

I am not sure if failure to plan or failure in expectation is fair.  In many cases, being unable to prepare for the future is probably more likely.

It very often is a failure to plan.    Or a failure to keep under review.    You often see cases like someone who started paying £30pm in 1988.    That was a good contribution back then.   However, 30 years later, they are still paying £30pm and never increased it.  That is a failure.

  The state can't afford or will not pay for your care at the end of your working life, where you have religiously been paying your taxes from day one, yet you are expected to fund your retirement, from a small pot of money,  which is constantly being stretched to its limits. 

Life expectancy has increased rapidly over the past few decades. Correspondingly care and pension provision cost is increasing. People themselves have to make a choice as to where their priorities lie. 

I suggest that most blue collar workers are unable to make a choice as to where their priorities lie.  Their incomes are being stretched to pay for the day to day essentials.  IMHO anyone who suggests they are wasting their money on non essentials, such as mobile phones, playstations, alcohol, cigarettes are insulting the vast proportion of the low paid and hard working British population.  Those who have managed to save a little are now seeing their investments being whittled away.

Sadly, I believe there is also a subclass of people who do waste their money, because their futures have been taken away from them.  They have no hope.  They have no money to invest in their futures.

I am not bitter or twisted when I see the investment banker who has a collection of supercars, paid for from a huge bonus, because he got lucky one day in the office.... I just know where that money came from!  My diminishing pension!!  (Do they have to give the bonus back when they have a bad day at work?) 

Neat and simple picture of the world. 

Have you considered becoming an investment banker? Their lives are easy and wealthy and the only tough decision they have to make is which Ferrari to drive on any particular day. 

LucyTheWestie

Looking at the actual numbers, over 10 years... factoring the fees and all the other expenses they like to take from you.... and from several different pension providers...  The amount of profit, which I will actually walk away with today, (not including my contributions)  is much lower than the projections the providers suggested.  OK, they say investments go down as well as up.  You would not buy a car if its performance was slower than they promised!   My other investments, which are very low risk, have performed better over the same period of time.  I don't have to pay fees to get at my money.  The trendline for my pension performance, over a long period of time, is a downward curve.  Projecting forward, things look grim..... and you can't get through to the buggers when you call them!

coyrls

As mentioned before, you shouldn't be tracking the projections as these are determined by changing rules, you should be tracking the current value.

Prism

LucyTheWestie said:

Looking at the actual numbers, over 10 years... factoring the fees and all the other expenses they like to take from you.... and from several different pension providers...  The amount of profit, which I will actually walk away with today, (not including my contributions)  is much lower than the projections the providers suggested.  OK, they say investments go down as well as up.  You would not buy a car if its performance was slower than they promised!   My other investments, which are very low risk, have performed better over the same period of time.  I don't have to pay fees to get at my money.  The trendline for my pension performance, over a long period of time, is a downward curve.  Projecting forward, things look grim..... and you can't get through to the buggers when you call them!

Do you know which fund(s) you are invested in within your pension?  What is the charge for the pension provider - the platform? These are details you should be able to find out and then decide how to move forward. Why don't you get online access so you don't need to call them?
Something is wrong if you have been losing money for 10 years since pretty much everyone else has been increasing their pot because in general all investments have been doing very well.

The guidance that was given at the start is just that - guidance. However I would have expected you to exceed those figures based upon recent history.

coyrls

Prism said:

LucyTheWestie said:

Looking at the actual numbers, over 10 years... factoring the fees and all the other expenses they like to take from you.... and from several different pension providers...  The amount of profit, which I will actually walk away with today, (not including my contributions)  is much lower than the projections the providers suggested.  OK, they say investments go down as well as up.  You would not buy a car if its performance was slower than they promised!   My other investments, which are very low risk, have performed better over the same period of time.  I don't have to pay fees to get at my money.  The trendline for my pension performance, over a long period of time, is a downward curve.  Projecting forward, things look grim..... and you can't get through to the buggers when you call them!

Do you know which fund(s) you are invested in within your pension?  What is the charge for the pension provider - the platform? These are details you should be able to find out and then decide how to move forward. Why don't you get online access so you don't need to call them?
Something is wrong if you have been losing money for 10 years since pretty much everyone else has been increasing their pot because in general all investments have been doing very well.

The guidance that was given at the start is just that - guidance. However I would have expected you to exceed those figures based upon recent history.

As I've said, you could appear to be losing money if you are tracking projections over time.  As the requirements for projections have changed, so projections have reduced but that has nothing to do with the performance of the underlying investments.

german_keeper

Deleted_User said:

LucyTheWestie said:

Thrugelmir said:

LucyTheWestie said:

dunstonh said:

For example, the average family will have little money left for their future, once they have paid for the things they need today. 

But a good chunk of them will spend money on things they do not need to keep up with the Jones.   Some spend more money on a mobile phone each month than they do their pension.   They buy more x-box games or eat out constantly or change their BMW every 2-3 years.   Then claim they couldn't afford to save for retirement.

I am not sure if failure to plan or failure in expectation is fair.  In many cases, being unable to prepare for the future is probably more likely.

It very often is a failure to plan.    Or a failure to keep under review.    You often see cases like someone who started paying £30pm in 1988.    That was a good contribution back then.   However, 30 years later, they are still paying £30pm and never increased it.  That is a failure.

  The state can't afford or will not pay for your care at the end of your working life, where you have religiously been paying your taxes from day one, yet you are expected to fund your retirement, from a small pot of money,  which is constantly being stretched to its limits. 

Life expectancy has increased rapidly over the past few decades. Correspondingly care and pension provision cost is increasing. People themselves have to make a choice as to where their priorities lie. 

I suggest that most blue collar workers are unable to make a choice as to where their priorities lie.  Their incomes are being stretched to pay for the day to day essentials.  IMHO anyone who suggests they are wasting their money on non essentials, such as mobile phones, playstations, alcohol, cigarettes are insulting the vast proportion of the low paid and hard working British population.  Those who have managed to save a little are now seeing their investments being whittled away.

Sadly, I believe there is also a subclass of people who do waste their money, because their futures have been taken away from them.  They have no hope.  They have no money to invest in their futures.

I am not bitter or twisted when I see the investment banker who has a collection of supercars, paid for from a huge bonus, because he got lucky one day in the office.... I just know where that money came from!  My diminishing pension!!  (Do they have to give the bonus back when they have a bad day at work?) 

Neat and simple picture of the world. 

Have you considered becoming an investment banker? Their lives are easy and wealthy and the only tough decision they have to make is which Ferrari to drive on any particular day. 

One man's neat and simple is another man's realistic. And no I really wouldn't want to be an investment banker as I would accept that it is probably a very stressful life. But I would choose that over a single parent with 2 disabled kids under the age of 5 trying to work as a self employed hairdresser and navigating the current tax credits and benefits system and feeling the shame of having to use a foodbank.

I have no experience of the former but I do of the latter, my niece. If she didn't have family and friends supporting her financially and emotionally I dread to think where she would be.   

LucyTheWestie

Prism said:

LucyTheWestie said:

Looking at the actual numbers, over 10 years... factoring the fees and all the other expenses they like to take from you.... and from several different pension providers...  The amount of profit, which I will actually walk away with today, (not including my contributions)  is much lower than the projections the providers suggested.  OK, they say investments go down as well as up.  You would not buy a car if its performance was slower than they promised!   My other investments, which are very low risk, have performed better over the same period of time.  I don't have to pay fees to get at my money.  The trendline for my pension performance, over a long period of time, is a downward curve.  Projecting forward, things look grim..... and you can't get through to the buggers when you call them!

Do you know which fund(s) you are invested in within your pension?  What is the charge for the pension provider - the platform? These are details you should be able to find out and then decide how to move forward. Why don't you get online access so you don't need to call them?
Something is wrong if you have been losing money for 10 years since pretty much everyone else has been increasing their pot because in general all investments have been doing very well.

The guidance that was given at the start is just that - guidance. However I would have expected you to exceed those figures based upon recent history.

I am saying that other investments that I have made, are outperforming my pension(s) - with no risk too!