Career in Law or Civil Service???

happyandcontented

My daughter in law is a qualified Barrister, but also works as a Solicitor and she is considering moving into the CS ( my son is in the CS) mainly because she works till 8pm every night. 

When she is in court those hours don't count towards her billable hours, so she is required to make them up. Her stress levels are high and although she is well paid, that is becoming less important than her quality of life. My friend's daughter is also a Solicitor and she works very long hours too. Hours that are not really compatible with family life. This is the norm for legal professionals.

So, whilst salary may seem to be the only differentiator, that may not be the case when you are actually working in either role.

sammyjammy

Emmia said:

What about being a civil service lawyer? Join the home office, pass your 1 year probation and then move over for the training contract etc. Best of both worlds? You'll get the higher starting salary and will be able to use your qualification. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/government-legal-department/about/recruitment

Good point, another route in is to take the EO role and once you are in apply ofr the Fast Stream scheme.  No brainer, nothing to lose and lots of potential for promotion and salary increases if your face fits!
https://www.faststream.gov.uk/

MovingForwards

https://www.cilex.org.uk/membership/getting_qualified

https://www.cilex.org.uk/membership/getting_qualified

You can qualify with CILEx, then do the LPC to be dual qualified as CILEx and solicitor, without the need for a TC, subject to meeting requirements.

Have you applied to any other firms for a TC? You are aware how fierce the competition is for them. Many paralegals, assistants, administrators etc are chasing them every year as there's more passing their LPC than TC spaces, plus they reduce each year.

If you think £40k is a good salary for the amount of life you give up for a legal career, you will end up very disappointed. Assisting someone is very different to running cases, getting the outcome for your client and meeting the targets set by the firm.
Imagine slogging your guts out, getting to the end of the year when the 'thanks everyone have a good Christmas' email arrives getting partway through and then seeing 'the targets for next year have increased by X to £Y'

Local firms are good for convenience, but you get pigeon holed into staying with them or moving into another local firm.
It's a different mentality to city practice where your experience is wider, covers a lot more and teaches you to hit the ground running when you move to another firm.

Many businesses have in-house solicitors / a legal department, you don't need to look just at law firms.

CS is a different ball game to legal practice, you can't compare the two. Both have very jaded staff due to work, pay, environment, same as any line of work.

Only you can decide what to do.

Brynsam

Vicki1980 said:

Dox said:

Dox said:

Vicki1980 said:

elsien said:

You seem to be very focused on the salary.
And then you say you want to be a solicitor for the money and the prestige. 
All of which is fine as far as it goes. But there a lot more to a job/career than how much you get paid.
Your question might be easier to approach if you gave some thought to the other aspects of the different options.  Like how much you'd enjoy them,  how much of a challenge you want, what sort of organisation you want to work in. Etc.

Thanks for your reply.  Yes I am focussed on salary because that is probably the only distinguishing factor between the two choices. 

I love the idea of working for both organisations and both roles present good  challenges. 

However, at my age I cannot afford to be hanging around waiting to be given a training contract in order to qualify as a solicitor.  Because I will never be able to enjoy the responsibility that comes with many years of experience if I don’t qualify soon. 

So yeah I am focussed on the money because at the end of the day we “work to live” we don’t “live to work” :-) 

If you think salary is the only distinguishing factor between the civil service and a high street law practice, you've got an awful lot to learn. Look at the structure of each organisation, for a start - and the governance. 

Your post is full of contradictions - the Home Office role 'looks so very interesting' - so interesting that you'd forgotten about it. You want to be a solicitor for the prestige and the pay. Ever looked at the stats to see how many qualified solicitors are trying desperately to get out of the profession?

I don't know where you live in the country, but you are talking about pretty modest salaries for a training contract, never mind a qualified solicitor. Have you approached other firms to see if they could offer you a training contract?

You're getting much too hung up on your age - and if you are, you're likely to trigger the same response in potential employers. You are 40, fantastically well organised (studying while bringing up children is anything but simple), highly intelligent (you've got a first class law degree) and now need to add in some sensible motivation - and you need to clarify in your own mind what that is. Think about the old adage: find a job you love and you'll never work a day in your life.

Would love to know what you decide and what happens if you could take the time to update this post in due course.

I am fully aware that there are many different distinguishing features to the two careers.  My point was that I have equal interest/excitement etc for both careers so therefore the only distinction that would allow me to favour one role over the other is the salary!! 

In regards to your suggested contradictions that I forgot about an interesting job, I forgot about it simply means I put it out of my mind because I was on a 12 month reserve list that I could do nothing about until they contacted me.  

Your point about SOME solicitors regretting their career choice is exactly why I am asking for advice. I think you will find in other statistics that there are many solicitors who enjoy their role and are being paid a substantial salary.

Ultimately, my decision is a coin of two sides and this is why I am seeking advice from people who work in both professions. 

I really didn’t think it was necessary to have to explain my initial points in that much detail but hey ho 🤷‍♀️. 

Solicitors need good communication skills, good negotiating skills and the ability to deal with criticism/feedback. Someone went to the trouble of posting a detailed and helpful reply (note the thanks from other posters, but not OP) based on what OP actually said.

Solicitors also need to know how to marshal their facts (and when to disclose them!) - maybe the civil service job would be the better one, where lack of clarity/ambiguity are seen as plus points.

MalMonroe

Gosh you're only 40 and you seem to think that's old! I didn't even graduate with my first class degree until I was 53. I just think it's sad that you don't know what you want to do. What do you REALLY want to do?  Only you know the answer. And it's not about the money. It's about how you spend your time. Both are well paid, well respected occupations. I don't think you'll be able to do the LPC alongside a training course even if the LPC is part-time - which it appears to be.  Not only is it a heavy workload but you also have to pay for it and it isn't cheap - more than £8k if you're in the UK. 

I think Emmia's suggestion is spot on! And you'd earn a much higher salary than the one you've quoted in the Civil Service, too.

JayRitchie

My thoughts - which area of law would you be working in and what would be a typical salary (and lifestyle) with 5 years PQE? Would you be training in the same area of law you are working in at the moment? If so I'd say thats a huge plus as you know you like it and you can see the lifestyles and working arrangements of qualified solicitors in the office.

winspiration

I have a law degree and went straight into the Civil Service (also the Home Office) as an EO, having failed to get in via the fast stream route, very soon after graduating from university at 21 and worked there for almost 25 years. A law degree will stand you in good stead, and there are indeed interesting jobs to be had, but that doesn't apply to all of them of course, and many will come with heavy workloads / high stress (as with most jobs these days, I suspect!).

When I joined, the emphasis was on being a generalist and moving jobs every 2 - 3 years to gain a wide range of different competencies. However, by the time I left, I suspect that in practice there was more emphasis on being funnelled down into specialising in certain areas based on competencies / experience gained. After the Home Office, I worked at several different regulatory bodies (still part of the mainstream CS), again, I'm not sure how easy it still is to move between departments these days. I did work my way up from EO to Principal / Grade 7 over time - the hardest jump in terms of opportunity to do so was probably from EO to HEO, possibly because at that time I was still in a big department, which held annual promotion boards (and then you'd look for a job at the higher grade having passed the board). In smaller departments, you could apply for specific higher grade posts as they came up and be promoted if you were selected for the job.

Lots of caveats though as things have probably changed a lot since I was there, I left 15 years ago to have a complete career change & run my own business from home.

TBagpuss

I think a huge amount (both likely earnings and work/life balance depend on what field of law you were thinking of going into. 
I would also consider who it is who suggested that you shouldn't approach the senior partner - was it another equity partner? If not, bear in mind that other staff members probably don't have detailed knowledge of the partners' plans or the long term financial position of the business.
In fact, i would take the view that as you say that the firm has been supportive up to now, why not speak to the senior partner? Explain that you appreciate that the situation is different than it was 6 months ago and that things may still be very much up in the air about whether or when they will be in a position to make a decision, but that as you have now graduated and need to be looking at your options, are they able to give you an update and do they still see it as being the plan to offer a TC from September? 
At worst, if they say they don't know and can't make a decision at present, you will be no worse off than you are now, if they say that they either definitely will or definitely won't be able to offer you a TC then that, too, will inform your decision making process. 

Emmia

winspiration said:

I have a law degree and went straight into the Civil Service (also the Home Office) as an EO, having failed to get in via the fast stream route, very soon after graduating from university at 21 and worked there for almost 25 years. A law degree will stand you in good stead, and there are indeed interesting jobs to be had, but that doesn't apply to all of them of course, and many will come with heavy workloads / high stress (as with most jobs these days, I suspect!).

When I joined, the emphasis was on being a generalist and moving jobs every 2 - 3 years to gain a wide range of different competencies. However, by the time I left, I suspect that in practice there was more emphasis on being funnelled down into specialising in certain areas based on competencies / experience gained. After the Home Office, I worked at several different regulatory bodies (still part of the mainstream CS), again, I'm not sure how easy it still is to move between departments these days. I did work my way up from EO to Principal / Grade 7 over time - the hardest jump in terms of opportunity to do so was probably from EO to HEO, possibly because at that time I was still in a big department, which held annual promotion boards (and then you'd look for a job at the higher grade having passed the board). In smaller departments, you could apply for specific higher grade posts as they came up and be promoted if you were selected for the job.

Lots of caveats though as things have probably changed a lot since I was there, I left 15 years ago to have a complete career change & run my own business from home.

Promotion boards are relatively uncommon these days, generally you apply for specific posts or occasionally a "generic recruitment" where multiple similar posts are advertised together. Moving departments is also fairly straightforward as a result, you simply find a job you want, and apply for (and hopefully, get) it. 

What I would say is that if the OP wishes to practice as a lawyer, then the type of legal work a government lawyer does can be quite different from that of a high street solicitor - you'll deal with public law, so legislation (including drafting) and advice on  government policy, rather than sorting out wills, divorces etc. So I think the key question may be what type or area of the law does the OP want to work in?