Employment Debt

Nadbags85

I wasn’t too sure where to post this but hoped someone could help me with a debt I’m being pursued for by my former employer.

The situation in a nutshell is I had an employee car scheme I was forced to terminate early when I handed in my notice and left employment. The scheme were really slow to respond to my notice and weren’t prepared to roll my contract into a hire purchase per their terms. Per the contract the vehicle had to be picked up within 24hrs if me leaving employment if they didn’t agree to hire purchase and because of their delays I was given 3 days notice and left without transport because they wouldn’t grant hire purchase.

They then sent me a bill for nearly £2000 for an early termination fee!! They said it was in the T&Cs but I requested a copy and whilst they did say early termination was subject to a fee, they never gave any slight indication what that would look like (ie/ a month’s premium etc). They claim I’m not protected as a consumer or under contract law as it was a corporate scheme. I think if they’re holding me to vague contract obligations I should have some form of protection from enforcement??

We’ve had some correspondence back and forth about it but it’s very sparse. It’s now 3 years later from me disputing this fee, and despite not complying with a SAR request, they’ve now issued me with a formal first notice of this ‘debt’.

The notice says if I don’t pay the sum in full they’ll ‘escalate’ it. Can they? Who to? Can I get a CCJ for this even if I have no consumer rights according to them?! 

Im really worried about this as I work in finance and can’t afford a judgement. I also really begrudge paying a fee that was not clear or communicated in a timely manner and I would have kept the car given the choice. 

Any help or advice wiuld be hugely appreciated. TIA.

sourcrates

Hi,
Its just debt collectors speak for writing more letters, doesn’t really matter what they may escalate it too, worst case scenario is they can take you to court, and obtain judgement against you yes.

Anyone can make a claim through MCOL for any money owed.

Write and ask for proof of their claim, without that it’s dead in the water anyway.

Galloglass

They said it was in the T&Cs but I requested a copy and whilst they did say early termination was subject to a fee

Did you get a copy of this? It would appear, but it is not clear, that they are seeking repayment of an employment cost that would be in your employment contract as a work-related cost. These claims are common and usually relate to training costs.

Did you get or even keep a copy of your employment contract? A defence may be that the cost of early termination of the car is a foreseeable business cost and shouldn't be visited on the employee as it would have the effect of restricting that employees ability to move jobs. There will be case law on it somewhere or you could call ACAS.

Nadbags85

sourcrates said:

Hi,
Its just debt collectors speak for writing more letters, doesn’t really matter what they may escalate it too, worst case scenario is they can take you to court, and obtain judgement against you yes.

Anyone can make a claim through MCOL for any money owed.

Write and ask for proof of their claim, without that it’s dead in the water anyway.

Hi, their proof is in the contract for the car scheme it states that on termination of employment there are 3 options - to purchase outright at the current valuation, to roll into a consumer HP agreement or to return the car and terminate the agreement. It it’s say there will be ‘a charge’ for terminating the agreement early but there’s no inclination of what that looks like... could be £50 could be the £2000 they’re claiming. It’s really infuriating as I wanted to roll it into HP but they refused and although they forced the termination, they’re imposing the fee...

Nadbags85

Galloglass said:

They said it was in the T&Cs but I requested a copy and whilst they did say early termination was subject to a fee

Did you get a copy of this? It would appear, but it is not clear, that they are seeking repayment of an employment cost that would be in your employment contract as a work-related cost. These claims are common and usually relate to training costs.

Did you get or even keep a copy of your employment contract? A defence may be that the cost of early termination of the car is a foreseeable business cost and shouldn't be visited on the employee as it would have the effect of restricting that employees ability to move jobs. There will be case law on it somewhere or you could call ACAS.

Hi, thank you. 
No employment contract but car scheme contract has been sent which is very vague but sets out stipulations for termination of employment per above. I have argued your point about it restricting your ability to move jobs and they are refusing to acknowledge it. They are adamant I am not protected as s consumer to ‘clear, fair and not misleading’ contract terms and I would not be able to escalate my complaint to an ombudsman etc... The annoying thing is they’ve only sent me 2 comms in the 3 years about this so I thought they were letting it go. This letter has completely thrown me and I’m really worried they’ll cause trouble if I don’t find a way to pay it 😞.

Galloglass

This is a very specialised one that I've never seen before but this appears to cover it. Can you check to see if it fits the bill
https://www.uhy-uk.com/wp-content/uploads/About-ECO-schemes-1.pdf

It appears that the company purchases a car under an ECO scheme and sell it to the employee and also provides the loan. The loan is then collected from pay. At the end there are the options you describe. Note the warnings in the text about keeping the loan out of the Consumer Credit Act. This is mentioned twice in that article. 

Looks to be so legally complex I am not surprised they have been delaying in contact you as some of the issues are:

1. Were you a willing purchaser of the vehicle or was there pressure to take it. You in effect became the owner of the asset.
2. Did the company clearly explain your rights when offering a loan
3. Could they offer loans in the first place without it coming under the CCA.

The cost of sorting this out in court, and the detail they would need looks to be more than the £2K when in the small claims track, they'd only get £50 back. 

Perhaps one of the debt specialists might want to weigh in with this one.

Nadbags85

This is very intersection however I’m not sure it’s quite the situation that the article describes. The contract for the car is very clear the business retain ownership of the car and although there is an option of purchasing the vehicle at a discounted rate after the term expires, it’s a rental amount deducted from salary for a set period. Mileage and condition penalties apply and so on. It’s certainly very complex but I’m just very uncomfortable with the idea they can be so dismissive of their responsibility to be clear on obligations before entering the contract. I appreciate your comments and will consider them thoroughly, thank you.

Nadbags85

*interesting