Want braces, UK, South East, 31yo Male, quoted £4,500

firenotre

I live in the south east of the United Kingdom. 

I was quoted £4,500 for traditional metal braces.

I'm a 31 year old male. 

My teeth aren't that bad. 

Is this too much? 

Google search shows average cost starts from 1k and goes up to 3.5k. 

I live in a small town. 

Here's all the other costs I estimate and some I know for sure:

Initial consultation 150 (already had this ofc)

Braces 4,500 (quoted in a formal letter)

X ray 75 

Records 250

Hygienist 400 @45 per visit (total includes possibility of prices going up)

Fixed retainers 400+ (could be 500-600)

Removable retainers 350 (could be more)

Removal of fixed retainers 300 (guess)

Follow up retainer checks 600 (150 each) (know for sure)

So looking at more like close to 7k including any unforeseen costs.

firenotre

No option to edit post, so I have to comment.
I meant it's over 7k NOT including unforeseen costs. This to me seems like an insane price for TRADITIONAL METAL braces.

brook2jack2

Fixed metal braces are actually the rolls Royce way of moving teeth. They allow for fine adjustments and very accurate placement of teeth. 

They typically take 18 months to 2 years with appointments every 6 to 8 weeks and can correct problems that systems like Invisalign can't. 

Seperate to this you have a quote for nine visits to the hygienist which would indicate you have gum disease. It is extremely important that you get any gum disease under control before starting braces and even if you don't go ahead with braces you should get gum problems under control.

The other "guessed" estimates are interesting

£250 for records , what do you mean? This is not a traditional charge 

removal of fixed retainers , no once fixed retainers are on they stay on , for life , you wouldn't need them removed

removable retainers , no you either have fixed or removable retainers , not both

four lots of retainer checks , no most people are discharged from orthodontist after end of treatment and only go back if retainer needs replacing

so depending on the complexity of your problem £4500 for up to two years of seeing a specialist every six to eight weeks in the southeast sounds within what I would expect.

firenotre

brook2jack2 said:

Fixed metal braces are actually the rolls Royce way of moving teeth. They allow for fine adjustments and very accurate placement of teeth. 

They typically take 18 months to 2 years with appointments every 6 to 8 weeks and can correct problems that systems like Invisalign can't. 

Seperate to this you have a quote for nine visits to the hygienist which would indicate you have gum disease. It is extremely important that you get any gum disease under control before starting braces and even if you don't go ahead with braces you should get gum problems under control.

The other "guessed" estimates are interesting

£250 for records , what do you mean? This is not a traditional charge 

removal of fixed retainers , no once fixed retainers are on they stay on , for life , you wouldn't need them removed

removable retainers , no you either have fixed or removable retainers , not both

four lots of retainer checks , no most people are discharged from orthodontist after end of treatment and only go back if retainer needs replacing

so depending on the complexity of your problem £4500 for up to two years of seeing a specialist every six to eight weeks in the southeast sounds within what I would expect.

I do not have have gum disease. This is clearly stated in my letter I got from him. 
He said, and it's widely known, that hygienist appointments should happen every 3 months instead of 6 with braces. That's 4 appointments per year, over 2 years. So 8 appointments. He didn't quote on hygienist. I will be going to my regular one as they are cheaper. So it's 8x £45 + price increases need to be factored in over the next 2 years = £360 + £40 in case of price increases. 

Records are photos, impressions etc taken to evaluate the precise plan for braces. It's one of the stages.

I wouldn't want fixed retainers for life, and as he told me they will not last forever. They will get damaged and wear out over time and will need replacing.

He said you should have both fixed and removable. He said it's like having a parachute. I suspect he's money hungry.

He said most of his patients come back for follow up supervised retainer checks which take place over 12-18 months upon removal of braces, 3-4 appointments@ £150 per appointment.

From my google searches, it says £3,500 is the max (Google average UK braces cost and filter by results from this year). I sent him an email with 17 questions, one being if he can lower the price.
He hasn't been clear about prices; what is and isn't included in the braces quote and the cost of retainers so i asked him to give me a price breakdown.
Sadly he's a monopoly where I live. There are no other ortho's for miles. The 2 nearest ones, which are 10 miles away are always fully booked and not taking on new patients.
None have websites, so no before and after pics.

brook2jack2

No you do not need three monthly hygiene visits when you have braces, you do not need six monthly hygiene visits routinely. If you clean well and effectively you should never need hygiene visits.

impressions , photos etc are not normally charged for separately , they are part of treatment planning. 

Yes fixed retainers do not last forever , but on most people their lifespan is years, yes often an orthodontist will provide a removable retainer as well in case the fixed retainer breaks or comes off , to hold things in place until a new fixed retainer can be made. 

Most orthodontists will not post pictures on websites of before and after photos as most of their work involves children and consent to appear on a publically viewed website is problematic. 

firenotre

brook2jack2 said:

No you do not need three monthly hygiene visits when you have braces, you do not need six monthly hygiene visits routinely. If you clean well and effectively you should never need hygiene visits.

impressions , photos etc are not normally charged for separately , they are part of treatment planning. 

Yes fixed retainers do not last forever , but on most people their lifespan is years, yes often an orthodontist will provide a removable retainer as well in case the fixed retainer breaks or comes off , to hold things in place until a new fixed retainer can be made. 

Most orthodontists will not post pictures on websites of before and after photos as most of their work involves children and consent to appear on a publically viewed website is problematic. 

Every dentist advises 6 monthly hygienist appointments.
I grew up in an uneducated family, that have never and will never floss. So its not habit for me to floss. I have found it VERY hard to make flossing a regular thing. With braces I will HAVE to. Braces will be incentive to do so.
So for the majority of the population, who are like me, visits are needed. 
Also that is TERRIBLE advice to give about never going to a hygienist. They also polish the teeth which means less crap sticks to the teeth as the surface is smoother.

This guy seems to charge for records as the lady at reception said it's £250 but she has to double check with the ortho.  I asked how long they have had an ortho for and she said it's only been a year. (Surely a year is long enough to learn the basic charges for the ortho as the receptionist?!).

With fixed retainers he said I would no longer be able to do things like bite into an apple. I would have to cut the apple into pieces otherwise it would break my fixed retainer. NO THANKS.
I reckon removable retainers would be enough.
REMEMBER he wants me to have BOTH removable and fixed. HENCE why I wrote I think he's money hungry. 
Then again the idea of putting plastic into my mouth every single night doesn't appeal to me.
A fixed retainer would likely be easier and nicer. 
He wants to put BOTH top and bottom retainers. 
And there are plenty of adult patients. In the USA it is very common for orthos to have websites and before and after pics.

firenotre

BTW there are separate charges for ALL retainers with him as I listed above.
He charges more for upper and lower fixed retainers, less for just lower retainer and there is a charge for the removable retainers too.

Let's not forget he wants me to come back and spend £600 on 'supervised retainer consults' @£150 each. MONEYYYYYY

Spoonie_Turtle

firenotre said:

brook2jack2 said:

No you do not need three monthly hygiene visits when you have braces, you do not need six monthly hygiene visits routinely. If you clean well and effectively you should never need hygiene visits.

impressions , photos etc are not normally charged for separately , they are part of treatment planning. 

Yes fixed retainers do not last forever , but on most people their lifespan is years, yes often an orthodontist will provide a removable retainer as well in case the fixed retainer breaks or comes off , to hold things in place until a new fixed retainer can be made. 

Most orthodontists will not post pictures on websites of before and after photos as most of their work involves children and consent to appear on a publically viewed website is problematic. 

Every dentist advises 6 monthly hygienist appointments.
I grew up in an uneducated family, that have never and will never floss. So its not habit for me to floss. I have found it VERY hard to make flossing a regular thing. With braces I will HAVE to. Braces will be incentive to do so.
So for the majority of the population, who are like me, visits are needed. 
Also that is TERRIBLE advice to give about never going to a hygienist. They also polish the teeth which means less crap sticks to the teeth as the surface is smoother.

I'm guessing you don't realise the poster trying to help you is actually one of our resident dentists?


Not to derail this thread but FWIW I also rarely floss, partly because I never got into the habit, and partly because once I tried to cultivate the habit as an adult I was too unwell to lift my arms and hold the floss properly for that long every day, so I end up flossing maybe 4-6 times between each checkup (which used to be 9 months apart for years, until my recent recurrent trouble with one tooth). My dentist has only ever recommended a hygienist visit once in all the years I've been his patient.

Of course our dental history may well be completely different - and every person's mouth and teeth are unique - but just thought I'd mention it to illustrate that no not every dentist recommends regular hygienist visits, not even for everyone who doesn't floss. My brother doesn't floss either (though he brushes his teeth without fail every day, whereas I'm too ill even to do that some days) and has had zero problems as an adult and no recommendations to see the hygienist either. He certainly doesn't have the kind of diet you'd associate with good dental health so that's not even a possible explanation!

brook2jack2

If you don't want your teeth to move after treatment you have to wear a retainer for life, and budget for replacing it on occasion. Teeth will move without retainers. 

whilst you are wearing a fixed brace you will not be able to eat certain foods as they will break the brace eg you won't be able to bite into apples . 

You will not be able to floss with a fixed brace you will have to use interdental brushes and be meticulous about cleaning and diet .

The most important thing is you have to trust the orthodontist , this will be a long treatment . It would appear from your postings that this is not the case and I wonder if it is in your best interested to go ahead with treatment with such a high level of trust. 

Finally there is a diffiferent culture around dentistry in the states , in this country very few patients, even adults , would want to give permission for their before and after shots to be on public view, and whilst there are increasing numbers of adult patients having braces , the majority of orthodontic cases are still children. This is particularly true in orthodontics because to see the full effect you need to see pictures of the full face so making people identifiable. There are also very strict GDC rules on websites and advertising .