Scottish Widows drawdown - any good?

randompenitent

I've fair sized SIPP in Interactive Investor and my current company "personal pension" at Scottish Widows (about half the size of the II pension).
I'm planning to retire soon (probably at the start of next year) and wondering what the drawdown experience is like with Scottish Widows or whether to move elsewhere.
Clearly I could consolidate the whole lot at Interactive Investor but I'm not sure I want that many eggs in one basket.
For those that know about these things, the SW pension appears to be what they call a "Group Personal Pension for the Employed."  The SW website doesn't provide much detail on drawdown options, though they talk about "flexible access" which presumably means some kind of flexible drawdown scheme.

[Deleted User]

randompenitent said:

I've fair sized SIPP in Interactive Investor and my current company "personal pension" at Scottish Widows (about half the size of the II pension).
I'm planning to retire soon (probably at the start of next year) and wondering what the drawdown experience is like with Scottish Widows or whether to move elsewhere.
Clearly I could consolidate the whole lot at Interactive Investor but I'm not sure I want that many eggs in one basket.
For those that know about these things, the SW pension appears to be what they call a "Group Personal Pension for the Employed."  The SW website doesn't provide much detail on drawdown options, though they talk about "flexible access" which presumably means some kind of flexible drawdown scheme.

I would just email them - normally you will see booklets for downloads.
You will get a wake up pack 6 months before your target retirement date with your options

dunstonh

Legacy personal pensions at SW do not offer drawdown.  They either need to be already in their retirement account or you pay them for tied advice to use the retirement account.    As its not the best option available, paying for tied advice would be pointless.

randompenitent

Thanks both.
I have written to SW asking for more information on what they offer, but I'm not holding my breath. I suspect things are running even more slowly than usual given the current circumstances.
@dunstonh - Why "legacy"?  This is a current pension account my employer is paying into. Good to know they'd need to be paid to tell me to use their own product though - that probably rules them out. 

bowlhead99

randompenitent said:

@dunstonh - Why "legacy"?  This is a current pension account my employer is paying into. Good to know they'd need to be paid to tell me to use their own product though - that probably rules them out. 

Yes, it's the one your employer currently uses. But that old-fashioned product is something that was invented in the old days before flexible drawdown was something people did in large numbers. It's a product you use to build your 'pot' pre-retirement. At retirement, you might like to buy an annuity, or transfer the balance via an adviser into their 'retirement account' which is a product that can offer drawdown. 

For employers setting up pensions now, they do have a more modern offering that wasn't available a few years ago. The "Scottish Widows Retirement Saver" is a Group Self Invested Personal Pension (GSIPP), with integrated drawdown as part of what it offers; it can also offer online access to open a Stocks and Shares ISA and General Investment Account (GIA) on the side.  But that's not the product your employer is using, if it's just their basic 'group personal pension'.

dunstonh

@dunstonh - Why "legacy"?  This is a current pension account my employer is paying into. Good to know they'd need to be paid to tell me to use their own product though - that probably rules them out. 

Lots of people pay into plans that would be called "legacy" or "historic" depending on the provider name.   There is no rule of thumb of when something becomes referred to as that.   But generally speaking, you are looking at older version contracts no longer available for new business.    

You need to remember that commission was banned for new business in 2013.  All advice is explicitly charged today. They cannot factor advice charges into their product charges (St James Place and a small handful of others excluded).   So, what you see today is the charges broken down into the following:

1 - Product or platform charge

2 - investment fund charge  

3 - adviser charge.

Depending on the assets used for the investments, the investment charge may be broken down further to show OCF, Transaction charges and incidental/other charges.    Technically, they do not have to be for pensions but most "honest" distribution channels will include them.

ian16527

dunstonh said:

Legacy personal pensions at SW do not offer drawdown.  They either need to be already in their retirement account or you pay them for tied advice to use the retirement account.    As its not the best option available, paying for tied advice would be pointless.

Can you explain why its not the best option? Is it cost, practicality of use, accessibility of information, difficult to administer in drawdown or something else.
I had some of my old pensions combined into a SW Retirement Plan by an IFA. I also have a Fidelity SIPP. The SW plan is 0.4% all in. I will be transferring my other 2 occupational DC schemes in to one of them as they dont offer drawdown.
 As I will be using flexible drawdown it would be interesting to know which one is the more flexible.

dunstonh

Can you explain why its not the best option?

Partly opinion.  Partly because alternatives are better.  Lloyds have been starving SW of funds for years and it shows in their product range.  SW is not what it used to be.   Lloyds have recently ventured into a new arrangement with Blackrock rather than use SW.       I don't like their software and prefer more modern options which also come in at better value.

The SW plan is 0.4% all in.

It used to be that the SW Ret Ac could come in very low in charges if you hit a sweet spot and used internal funds.   However, nowadays you are looking at platform charges in the 0.1x to 0.2x range.

As I will be using flexible drawdown it would be interesting to know which one is the more flexible.

Flexible in what ways?  Every platform has quirks and issues.  There is no one platform that is best in all areas.   

randompenitent

bowlhead99 said:

For employers setting up pensions now, they do have a more modern offering that wasn't available a few years ago. The "Scottish Widows Retirement Saver" is a Group Self Invested Personal Pension (GSIPP), with integrated drawdown as part of what it offers; it can also offer online access to open a Stocks and Shares ISA and General Investment Account (GIA) on the side.  But that's not the product your employer is using, if it's just their basic 'group personal pension'.

Sounds right @bowlhead99.  Mine doesn't sound the the GSIPP. It's pretty basic with a web site for administration which looks prehistoric and requires an ancient version Internet Explorer for all the features to work (or so they say, when I ask why it's broken). They are gradually rolling out a shiny new website which works better and even allows fund-switching online, but misses quite a lot of important information. 

dunstonh

They are gradually rolling out a shiny new website which works better and even allows fund-switching online,

Fund switching online?  Welcome to 2001.    

This does highlight the point I was making earlier.

bowlhead99

randompenitent said:

bowlhead99 said:

For employers setting up pensions now, they do have a more modern offering that wasn't available a few years ago. The "Scottish Widows Retirement Saver" is a Group Self Invested Personal Pension (GSIPP), with integrated drawdown as part of what it offers; it can also offer online access to open a Stocks and Shares ISA and General Investment Account (GIA) on the side.  But that's not the product your employer is using, if it's just their basic 'group personal pension'.

Sounds right @bowlhead99.  Mine doesn't sound the the GSIPP. It's pretty basic with a web site for administration which looks prehistoric and requires an ancient version Internet Explorer for all the features to work (or so they say, when I ask why it's broken). They are gradually rolling out a shiny new website which works better and even allows fund-switching online, but misses quite a lot of important information. 

Yes, my workplace pension is a series 2 group personal pension too, and the website is as basic as it gets. But their archaic interface *does* allow fund switching online. When you look at the fund value option on the menu, after it shows the current valuation, the two useful options below it as text links are called something like: change funds I am currently invested in, and, redirect my future contributions.  If you are not using individual fund selection there is an option to change 'strategy' or 'approach' whatever they call it.

Once you are in either of those modes for changing what you're invested in or redirecting future contributions, you can look at a list of available fund factsheets from links on the left, and in the main panel you have options for each holding to switch out of x units or x percent of it, and use the money to switch in to new funds  which you add from drop-down choices into a table below.  And yes I also have the problem where it doesn't like all browsers - if i'm using Chrome, I can select new funds, but then there isn't actually a confirm / submit button to lock in the choice and move past it. Also, I don't think you can have money in more than 10 things. Which is probably not a problem for most, but might be if you are doing lots of changes and there is an overlap between what you are switching between and where your ongoing contributions are going.

I have got into the habit now of, from time to time: if the value in my workplace SW pension is £10-20k, I do a partial transfer out into my SIPP and buy funds on that platform instead. The logic being that the SW in-house funds are not particularly amazing, and for their versions of third-party funds that I like, you end up paying their 0.5% (our employer's agreed fee rate, may be different for you) plus a pretty high external manager's fee, making those funds more expensive than if I moved the money into my own SIPP and bought the cheapest available class of the OEIC version of that same fund.  I still keep the workplace one going of course because I get employer contributions and can get a small boost of NI savings as it's a salary-sacrifice scheme.