Sainsbury's Bank - Section 75

eskbanker

Nebulous2 said:

I first contacted Barclaycard about a disputed transaction on the 23rd of March. They told me on 10th of April they would do a chargeback, when I called. I haven’t heard a word other than very vague platitudes. 

At the beginning of this week I sent a letter before action to both Barclaycard and the travel agent under section 75.

The involvement of travel agents normally precludes a successful s75 claim, as the card company can simply deny liability by virtue of the broken debtor-creditor-supplier chain if you've paid an intermediary rather than the actual service provider, so in such circumstances it'll almost inevitably be better to stick to chargeback....

Life__Goes__On

eskbanker said:

Nebulous2 said:

I first contacted Barclaycard about a disputed transaction on the 23rd of March. They told me on 10th of April they would do a chargeback, when I called. I haven’t heard a word other than very vague platitudes. 

At the beginning of this week I sent a letter before action to both Barclaycard and the travel agent under section 75.

The involvement of travel agents normally precludes a successful s75 claim, as the card company can simply deny liability by virtue of the broken debtor-creditor-supplier chain if you've paid an intermediary rather than the actual service provider, so in such circumstances it'll almost inevitably be better to stick to chargeback....

It will depend on what a person has bought from a travel agent.
Airline tickets only will fail  where as airline tickets and hotel bought together won't

eskbanker

Life__Goes__On said:

eskbanker said:

Nebulous2 said:

I first contacted Barclaycard about a disputed transaction on the 23rd of March. They told me on 10th of April they would do a chargeback, when I called. I haven’t heard a word other than very vague platitudes. 

At the beginning of this week I sent a letter before action to both Barclaycard and the travel agent under section 75.

The involvement of travel agents normally precludes a successful s75 claim, as the card company can simply deny liability by virtue of the broken debtor-creditor-supplier chain if you've paid an intermediary rather than the actual service provider, so in such circumstances it'll almost inevitably be better to stick to chargeback....

It will depend on what a person has bought from a travel agent.
Airline tickets only will fail  where as airline tickets and hotel bought together won't

I don't believe this makes any difference as far as s75 is concerned (although 'package' status can affect other matters, such as ATOL coverage) - the test is whether or not the customer has directly paid the actual service provider, whether that's an airline, a hotel, a combination of these, or a tour operator.

born_again

Nebulous2 said:

I first contacted Barclaycard about a disputed transaction on the 23rd of March. They told me on 10th of April they would do a chargeback, when I called. I haven’t heard a word other than very vague platitudes. 

At the beginning of this week I sent a letter before action to both Barclaycard and the travel agent under section 75. 

The only Amex I’ve ever had, ironically enough, was a Barclaycard one where they gave me two cards on the same account. I’ve never felt any urge to get another, but they are processing chargebacks in 3-4 days, where Barclaycard and most others have been posted missing. 

And was the Amex cases when there was a situation such as now? 
Where banks are running on a a lot less staff due to sickness and having to work from home?
Add in that FlyBe collapse in March, which was already causing delays. Then add in people calling for refunds that are going to be processed in due course by the companies.
People should not be involving their card providers for Covid 19 cancellations. That should be dealt with by the travel co's. Our stance on S75 is no breech as travel co's are refunding. They may take a long time to do so, but like many other companies they are struggling to deal with the vast amount of work, that they simply do not have the staff to deal with.
If you are not happy to wait then CMA & courts are the way forward.

eskbanker

born_again said:

People should not be involving their card providers for Covid 19 cancellations. That should be dealt with by the travel co's.

An understandable opinion from a bank employee but s75 obviously holds the card company jointly liable legally, whether they like it or not, and when Martin Lewis et al bang on about claiming via card companies if travel suppliers are being uncooperative in offering vouchers (again understandably) then it's hardly surprising that many customers choose to exercise their legal rights.  For what it's worth I agree that the onus should be on travel companies to adhere to the rules, but conversely can see how ruinous it is for them to do so, so it's not really a surprise that they're all desperately trying to find a way through it....

Life__Goes__On

eskbanker said:

Life__Goes__On said:

eskbanker said:

Nebulous2 said:

I first contacted Barclaycard about a disputed transaction on the 23rd of March. They told me on 10th of April they would do a chargeback, when I called. I haven’t heard a word other than very vague platitudes. 

At the beginning of this week I sent a letter before action to both Barclaycard and the travel agent under section 75.

The involvement of travel agents normally precludes a successful s75 claim, as the card company can simply deny liability by virtue of the broken debtor-creditor-supplier chain if you've paid an intermediary rather than the actual service provider, so in such circumstances it'll almost inevitably be better to stick to chargeback....

It will depend on what a person has bought from a travel agent.
Airline tickets only will fail  where as airline tickets and hotel bought together won't

I don't believe this makes any difference as far as s75 is concerned

I'm sure I read somewhere that it does make a difference,  as the product becomes "a package"  not two individual items.   So the package is covered under S75 ( this is aside from any other regs or Acts protecting holidays)

I will try and find where i read it.

eskbanker

Life__Goes__On said:

eskbanker said:

Life__Goes__On said:

eskbanker said:

Nebulous2 said:

I first contacted Barclaycard about a disputed transaction on the 23rd of March. They told me on 10th of April they would do a chargeback, when I called. I haven’t heard a word other than very vague platitudes. 

At the beginning of this week I sent a letter before action to both Barclaycard and the travel agent under section 75.

The involvement of travel agents normally precludes a successful s75 claim, as the card company can simply deny liability by virtue of the broken debtor-creditor-supplier chain if you've paid an intermediary rather than the actual service provider, so in such circumstances it'll almost inevitably be better to stick to chargeback....

It will depend on what a person has bought from a travel agent.
Airline tickets only will fail  where as airline tickets and hotel bought together won't

I don't believe this makes any difference as far as s75 is concerned

I'm sure I read somewhere that it does make a difference,  as the product becomes "a package"  not two individual items.   So the package is covered under S75 ( this is aside from any other regs or Acts protecting holidays)

I will try and find where i read it.

I had a look myself and there was an ombudsman case study from 2003 that did indeed conclude that where the travel agent was construed as having assembled a package then they can be considered the supplier for s75 purposes, so if the situation referred to above fitted that definition then s75 may indeed be applicable.

The current version of the published FOS info seems to omit this case but it can be found in archives, such as at http://web.archive.org/web/20031006022901/http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/31/creditcards-31.htm

31/6
holiday package – airline flights cancelled – pre-existing arrangement between travel agent and customer – whether section 75 applied

Mr B used his credit card to pay the deposit to a travel agent for a holiday package that the travel agent had put together. Part of the package included two flights that the agent arranged with an airline. Unfortunately, the airline went out of business before Mr B’s holiday began and he had to buy two new tickets.

complaint upheld
We took the view that, in this case, there was a contract between Mr B and the travel agent to supply the holiday package. The travel agent breached that contract by failing to supply the tickets that made up part of the package. The contract between Mr B and the travel agent was financed under ‘pre-existing arrangements’ between the supplier of the package (the travel agent) and the bank that issued the credit card. So we considered that the bank should treat the claim as if section 75 applied.

The bank agreed to meet the claim.

Life__Goes__On

Thanks, I knew I had  read it somewhere.

Nebulous2

born_again said:

Nebulous2 said:

I first contacted Barclaycard about a disputed transaction on the 23rd of March. They told me on 10th of April they would do a chargeback, when I called. I haven’t heard a word other than very vague platitudes. 

At the beginning of this week I sent a letter before action to both Barclaycard and the travel agent under section 75. 

The only Amex I’ve ever had, ironically enough, was a Barclaycard one where they gave me two cards on the same account. I’ve never felt any urge to get another, but they are processing chargebacks in 3-4 days, where Barclaycard and most others have been posted missing. 

And was the Amex cases when there was a situation such as now? 
Where banks are running on a a lot less staff due to sickness and having to work from home?

The Amex cases were very recently in the CV travel forum. Several reports of chargebacks done in a few days. 

born_again

Nebulous2 said:

born_again said:

Nebulous2 said:

I first contacted Barclaycard about a disputed transaction on the 23rd of March. They told me on 10th of April they would do a chargeback, when I called. I haven’t heard a word other than very vague platitudes. 

At the beginning of this week I sent a letter before action to both Barclaycard and the travel agent under section 75. 

The only Amex I’ve ever had, ironically enough, was a Barclaycard one where they gave me two cards on the same account. I’ve never felt any urge to get another, but they are processing chargebacks in 3-4 days, where Barclaycard and most others have been posted missing. 

And was the Amex cases when there was a situation such as now? 
Where banks are running on a a lot less staff due to sickness and having to work from home?

The Amex cases were very recently in the CV travel forum. Several reports of chargebacks done in a few days. 

So not done by you then?
People need to be aware that things are taking a lot longer at the moment, due to higher demand. At the moment it is busier than when TC went down, and has been since lockdown started.
Sadly there are only so many hours in the day and staff are getting to the point of not being able to take on anymore. 5 Months into the year and it has been non stop the whole time. Normally it is peaks and troughs. Not this year. 
Staff have even cancelled their holidays. But are now being told not too, as they need a break. Management are worried that people will start going off sick with stress related issues.

If you think how many customers Barclaycard have. In 2018 it was 10 million. If you imagine 1 in 10 is in the same situation as you.
It gives you some idea of the pressure they are under. Sadly the role that deals with disputes/S75 is not one that you can simply put anyone on. Due to the amount of regulations and different options available.

So we are all working as hard to resolve your issues. Just sheer weight of numbers mean that it will take some time.