Creditor's reply to my offer on an unenforceable debt - advice sought, please

DaveAllen

I wrote to all my creditors on a DMP I've been in for more than 10 years now.
All wrote back and said there was no CCA so the debts were unenforceable. Cabot continue to make me offers of 30% to clear the three debts with them.
All wrote back with what appears to be a standard response, saying the debt was still outstanding, they could still chase the debt, but there was nothing they could do in terms of CCJs or court proceedings. Cabot's letters even stated that I didn't need to continue making the payments though PayPlan, but should the CCAs ever be found, the debt would be enforceable once again. To date, I've continued to service all the debts through PayPlan.
PRA Group's reply has me confused. I made an offer of £500 to clear a £9500 debt that is more than 10 years old and unenforceable. They have written back to say the lowest offer they would accept would be £9100. They also say that my account with them is "live which means it is non-defaulted" and that I should continue to make payments through PayPlan, as non-payment "may lead to a default being applied". This seems to be totally contrary to the advice I have been given to date.
So, I have a few questions.
1 Do I need to continue paying Cabot, Arrow and PRA, who have all written to say the debts are unenforceable?
2 Does is sound right that PRA are asking for 95% of the debt as a settlement for an unenforceable debt from 12 years ago?
3 If a debt is unenforceable, and I stop paying it, can a default notice be applied to my credit file?
4 If the PRA debt was shown as a default on my credit file 12 years ago, can it be shown again by a company who bought the debt?

I'm keen to get the PRA one sorted, as they continue to show the £9500 as an outstanding balance on a credit card with no facility. What that means is, depending on my balance on other cards, my credit file shows be always over 100% of my total credit limit, and sometimes as much as 145% of it. I haven't had the credit card in over a decade.
Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Suseka97

DaveAllen said:

So, I have a few questions.
1 Do I need to continue paying Cabot, Arrow and PRA, who have all written to say the debts are unenforceable?
2 Does is sound right that PRA are asking for 95% of the debt as a settlement for an unenforceable debt from 12 years ago?
3 If a debt is unenforceable, and I stop paying it, can a default notice be applied to my credit file?
4 If the PRA debt was shown as a default on my credit file 12 years ago, can it be shown again by a company who bought the debt?
I'm keen to get the PRA one sorted, as they continue to show the £9500 as an outstanding balance on a credit card with no facility. What that means is, depending on my balance on other cards, my credit file shows be always over 100% of my total credit limit, and sometimes as much as 145% of it. I haven't had the credit card in over a decade.

1. No, you should now stop paying and close the DMP with Payplan (but make a note of all your account details before you do that).
2. It's not really a question of right or wrong. PRA can ask anything they want because the debt is still owed, so it's up to them how much they are willing to settle for.  Stopping any payments will allow you to build up F&F funds and it is then a bit of a bartering game.  You offer, they counter, you negotiate, until you get to where you want to be.
3. If its never been defaulted - which is really odd and needs looking into - then yes, a default can be applied at any time.
4. If it was defaulted 12 years ago (and as such should have dropped off your credit file) then it cannot be defaulted twice. You need to raise a dispute about this.  Also I'm a bit confused here - the PRA group are debt purchasers and from what you've said they still own it.

As already mentioned you do need to resolve the credit card/PRA issue around the default.  It shouldn't still be on your credit file.  If it wasn't defaulted then you really need to pursue this and get the default backdated.  

sourcrates

Sometimes debts are sold as live accounts, ie, non defaulted, when the original creditor either decides they no longer wish to do business with you, or they go bust, makes no difference if they can`t produce the paperwork, you can just walk away if you wish.

DaveAllen

Thanks so much for your reply.
PayPlan has recommended I continue to pay all outstanding debts even though they are unenforceable. I get the feeling that it's not in PayPlan's interest to close the DMP, as they also always seem to shy away from any advice around looking to settle the debts.

The credit card one is a strange one. I've asked the major credit agencies if I can see my credit file from back then, as they only appear to show the past six years. As far as I am aware, every creditor issued a default against me back then. If I can see a default from then, I'll go back to PRA. If I can't then I'll look to get a default backdated.

DaveAllen

sourcrates said:

Sometimes debts are sold as live accounts, ie, non defaulted, when the original creditor either decides they no longer wish to do business with you, or they go bust, makes no difference if they can`t produce the paperwork, you can just walk away if you wish.

Thank you for your reply.

So is the threat of a new default from PRA lacking teeth?

I'm happy to carry on playing the game, but the last thing I want is to have worked this hard to repair my credit standing only to have a new default supplied.

sourcrates

DaveAllen said:

sourcrates said:

Sometimes debts are sold as live accounts, ie, non defaulted, when the original creditor either decides they no longer wish to do business with you, or they go bust, makes no difference if they can`t produce the paperwork, you can just walk away if you wish.

Thank you for your reply.

So is the threat of a new default from PRA lacking teeth?

I'm happy to carry on playing the game, but the last thing I want is to have worked this hard to repair my credit standing only to have a new default supplied.

Its difficult to say, as time has passed, they say it didn`t default, you think it did, you could SAR the original creditor, but it depends if their records go back that far, you may have to engage with that one if your credit file is important to you, the rest are all non priority, they can`t take you to court, so its up to you what you choose to do.

And it is your choice, Payplan and Stepchange, are both creditor funded, so there modus operandi is to keep you paying your debts regardless of their enforcability, you decide whats best for you, then do it, don`t listen to them, or anyone who gives you their moral opinion, only you know your debt struggles, and usually its been a bumpy road for most people.

Remember, they would not hesitate to use this against you, should the tables be reversed.

DaveAllen

sourcrates said:

DaveAllen said:

sourcrates said:

Sometimes debts are sold as live accounts, ie, non defaulted, when the original creditor either decides they no longer wish to do business with you, or they go bust, makes no difference if they can`t produce the paperwork, you can just walk away if you wish.

Thank you for your reply.

So is the threat of a new default from PRA lacking teeth?

I'm happy to carry on playing the game, but the last thing I want is to have worked this hard to repair my credit standing only to have a new default supplied.

Its difficult to say, as time has passed, they say it didn`t default, you think it did, you could SAR the original creditor, but it depends if their records go back that far, you may have to engage with that one if your credit file is important to you, the rest are all non priority, they can`t take you to court, so its up to you what you choose to do.

And it is your choice, Payplan and Stepchange, are both creditor funded, so there modus operandi is to keep you paying your debts regardless of their enforcability, you decide whats best for you, then do it, don`t listen to them, or anyone who gives you their moral opinion, only you know your debt struggles, and usually its been a bumpy road for most people.

Remember, they would not hesitate to use this against you, should the tables be reversed.

So, Barclaycard couldn't confirm one way or the other whether the correct procedure was followed back in 2009. They were very helpful, but could only see so much information. Their advice was to submit a GDPR request for all information held by the Barclays group of companies, which I've done, and then to request that the correct default was put in place back at that time if it wasn't already, which would now fall off my credit file because of the time passed.

However, and I do recognise what you said about PayPlan being funded by the card providers, PayPlan's advice is that the 'new' creditor, PRA Group (since May 2011), can issue a second default if they choose to, regardless of whether the first was issued, if I choose to stop paying what has been identified in writing by the creditor as an unenforceable debt. Any idea if that is correct? 

I am awaiting on two final CCA replies from Barclays Bank. If they come back as unenforceable, then all my debts would have been confirmed as unenforceable, and then my understanding is that I could close the DMP with PayPlan and communicate directly with each creditor about clearing the debt, but in the meantime I am not bound to pay anything further.

sourcrates

Your understanding is correct, also they can register a default, but if the account defaulted originally, it must bear the same date as the original, so would not show anyway, alas if it didn`t default originally, you would then have to complain about backdating it etc.