Coronavirus - Denplan/Simply Health

Lcdby

Our monthly fee to Denplan is £80. I have two fillings that need doing, I was told to use temporary fillings for now, this could go on for months. No reduced monthly fee because of virus, I read on their website if you take a payment break when you resume payments they could ask for missed payments back! We are going to leave Denplan as all they do is take money every month and dentist doesn’t do anything. For my last checkup I was in the chair for 3 minutes. My friend works at a dentist and says all Denplan dentists do is take money and not do the work, that is what my dentist is doing. Then they have the cheek to say you have to be dental fit before you rejoin or leave to go to another dentist they are just bullies.I am going to go private with another dentist which has been recommended when I can register with them. 

The hygienist already runs three months behind, and trying to get an appointment with dentist probably next year. 😒

brook2jack2

Just to warn you , all dentists will have a massive backlog of patients that need urgent treatment. Check ups , routine treatment etc Reopening will probably be staged and aerosol generating procedures (eg fillings,crowns, bridges, hygiene ) will be one of the last things dentists will be authorised to do , and are likely to take much longer due to all the other decontamination procedures that will have to be followed. 

At the moment in the centres that are authorised to do extreme emergency treatment they can see, at maximum , four patients a day. The average private dentist will see about twenty , the average NHS thirty to forty and in order to do any treatment they are likely to have to follow the same protocols as the urgent centres. 

As a consequence of this I very much doubt any dentist NHS , Private, Denplan etc will have the space to see a new patient for a check up, let alone treatment , for quite some time. 

Undervalued

brook2jack2 said:

Just to warn you , all dentists will have a massive backlog of patients that need urgent treatment. Check ups , routine treatment etc Reopening will probably be staged and aerosol generating procedures (eg fillings,crowns, bridges, hygiene ) will be one of the last things dentists will be authorised to do , and are likely to take much longer due to all the other decontamination procedures that will have to be followed. 

At the moment in the centres that are authorised to do extreme emergency treatment they can see, at maximum , four patients a day. The average private dentist will see about twenty , the average NHS thirty to forty and in order to do any treatment they are likely to have to follow the same protocols as the urgent centres. 

As a consequence of this I very much doubt any dentist NHS , Private, Denplan etc will have the space to see a new patient for a check up, let alone treatment , for quite some time. 

So this is a bit like the childminders and nursery schools. Keep paying us whist we can't do anything or we "won't guarantee" you a place afterwards? 

I must admit, long before all this started, I have always tried to avoid dentists in particular (and to a lesser extent other medical related appointments) during peak flu season. Rightly or wrongly I was bothered about the infection risk as I assume any decontamination must be limited by economic factors?

Before the days of air driven, water cooled ultra high speed drills etc dentists still used to fill teeth. Do you think there will be a few steps back?

I remember a work colleague, about 15+ years ago, using an ultra high precision electric tool (a sort of Rolls Royce Dremel costing about ten times the price!). IIRC dental hand pieces were available for those and were apparently used in some remote parts of the world.

brook2jack2

There are electric motor drills costing around a hundred times what a Dremel costs but you are still working a few inches away from some ones mouth which is full of saliva so you are still creating an aerosol.
In terms of cross infection remember the people most at risk in the dental surgery are the dentist and their staff, they have every motive for taking every necessary precaution. 

It is incredibly expensive in the best of times , since 2006 the cost of complying with regulations has gone up by 1100% 

at the moment my practice is providing emergency treatment in extremis. We can see no more than four people a day for non aerosol procedures . Our everyday PPE is very difficult to get hold of and has gone up ten times in price. We are trying to get hold of equipment and testing we will need to be able to do more procedures when we are allowed. It is enormously difficult and expensive and after each procedure the surgery has to be left for an hour before it can be decontaminated. 

At the moment it is costing us a considerable amount to see patients , what they pay does not even cover our costs but it is our duty. Many colleagues are wondering when we do open up more how they are going to cover the costs of PPE ,equipment and many,many less patients in the day. 

maman

Martin was asked a question about Denplan on Radio 5 Live at lunchtime. Unfortunately he didn't give a comprehensive response but he did suggest that as we pay the money to Denplan then it's Denplan who should sort it out. I tried calling them myself a few weeks back and used their live chat. They were singularly unhelpful and told me I should speak to the dentist. I'm reluctant to do that as I don't want my dentist thinking I'm an awkward customer. 

To date we've had 3 months with no service at all. The only option available was to call for advice about pain relief which would have been available through my GP in any event. The dentist is now open in a limited way but will (rightly) work through a list of people needing treatment before starting on any routine appointments. I assume they are now available for emergencies.

What I find difficult to understand is how when dentists do eventually catch up how Denplan can say we've got what we paid for over the term of the contract. Surely if I had a check up next week (3 months late) and everything is still fine then the dentist isn't going to insist on another unnecessary check up within 3 months (rather than 6) just to make sure I've had my moneysworth?  Simialarly, although the hygienist will perhaps have a little more work doing a scale and polish after a protracted period, will they offer an earlier next appointment to fit it into the contract. I suspect not.

There's been a lot said about forbearance as dentists (like others) have had a hard time. I wouldn't mind paying something but to pay full fees for no service seems wrong. 

brook2jack2

To reopen dentists have had to pay a massive amount in extra costs for eg PPE which has gone up over 2000% in costs and because instead of seeing 25 patients a day they can now only see perhaps 4 patients a day. 

Denplan have sourced and helped the dentists in their scheme source PPE . In private practice many surgeries are having to impose an extra charge per procedure to cover costs in the region of £12 to £35 per visit. 

I do not believe most practices with membership schemes such as Denplan, practice plan are adding these costs on , for now , in thanks for loyalty which has kept the practices afloat at a time when dental practices got less help than betting shops. 

maman

I understand what you're saying from a dentist's point of view. And I suppose we should be grateful that, in addition to paying 3 months for nothing in return, that the dentist doesn't ask for more to cover increased costs. That's cold comfort for anyone who's lost their job though. Do dental practices not qualify for any of the government schemes? 

brook2jack2

No , dental practices are not in a class that qualifies for rate rebate , if they have any NHS contract , and most have some , they could not furlough staff or furlough many staff , the dentists mostly did not qualify for self employed income help , and the costs of running the practice have continued. In addition many have not qualified for bounce back loans . https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/smallbusiness/article-8308261/Dentists-begging-Government-extend-coronavirus-support-schemes.html

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/money/dentists-need-help-brink-going-bust-furlough-scheme-lockdown-431171

Several chains of dentists have already gone bust alongside many individual practices . The restrictions on practice are going to continue for some time and income will not meet the considerable costs of keeping a practice open . It costs £120 to £200 an hour per room , pre covid to run a practice. After drilling a room has to be left fallow for an hour to decontaminate. But it still costs to run it  and the increased costs of PPE. Dentists will see fewer patients per day , that's much less income with far , far higher costs

Spoonie_Turtle

brook2jack2 said:

No , dental practices are not in a class that qualifies for rate rebate , if they have any NHS contract , and most have some , they could not furlough staff or furlough many staff , the dentists mostly did not qualify for self employed income help , and the costs of running the practice have continued. In addition many have not qualified for bounce back loans . https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/smallbusiness/article-8308261/Dentists-begging-Government-extend-coronavirus-support-schemes.html

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/money/dentists-need-help-brink-going-bust-furlough-scheme-lockdown-431171

Several chains of dentists have already gone bust alongside many individual practices . The restrictions on practice are going to continue for some time and income will not meet the considerable costs of keeping a practice open . It costs £120 to £200 an hour per room , pre covid to run a practice. After drilling a room has to be left fallow for an hour to decontaminate. But it still costs to run it  and the increased costs of PPE. Dentists will see fewer patients per day , that's much less income with far , far higher costs

I daren't read the articles because I'm outraged enough already hearing that dentists have fallen through all the cracks between hasty, half-baked schemes. Do those in government truly not understand that DENTISTS ARE ESSENTIAL to our health?! From previous posts I am aware that dentists already struggle to keep afloat (which is mind-boggling in itself - again, DENTISTS ARE ESSENTIAL) but to just entirely abandon them at such a time is beyond disgusting. Absolutely disgraceful.

And even worse is that this is not generally well-known. I'm only aware thanks to posts from you and the other dentists on here.

maman

I was aware that various groups had 'fallen through the cracks' of the government schemes. I know Martin Lewis has been highlighting various anomalies to to the Chancellor with limited success. Also, Martin has tried, again without success, to be allowed as a respected financial journalist to be part of a daily briefing.

What does seem to be the case though is that dental practices seem to be run along many different business models. The post from the dentist does say that some practices  have been able to access schemes but other practices have not.  There has to be a reason for that. 

So, while I have some sympathy, it still seems unfair that patients are being expected to prop up the system because either the government scheme or the business models aren't fit for purpose or probably a bit of both. I strongly expect, as a taxpayer, that I'll be expected to pay for the government schemes in the longer term. I accept that but it seems I've already made a contribution anyway. So far, it's cost me about £200, soon to increase as another month goes by. I wonder how far £200+ from every tax payer would go. to sorting out the debt.