Statutory demand for debts from abroad possible?

djcat

Hello,
I am a British citizen living abroad and I have been employed at a business owned by two people who live in London. They have a registered business in the country where I live and I was employed at that business. I was working as their regional sales manager when unexpectedly they simply stopped paying my salary and taxes and did not even pay my travel expenses for the business any more and cut me off without a word about the reasons why, stopping all communications. Legally under the terms of the contract I am still employed and I can´t get any unemployment benefit here because of that. Yes I am looking for another job but in this crisis things just aren´t as fast as they used to be.

Incredibly, they did not cut me off their finance software so I saw many deals coming in that I have worked for but now being booked under a company registered in London instead of where I am, I guess they just did not want to pay me my agreed commission as in total we are talking about nearly 3 million Euros in revenue.... So far they owe me nearly 100thousand Euros, I have children to feed and a mortgage to pay and I am after five months, running out of money. 

A friend of mine told me it is possible to issue a statutory demand note in a county court against the company directors and owners personally, although the debt was not accumulated in England. Can anybody confirm this? 

Thanks for any advise you can give me, I am getting desperate.

Flyright

If the money owed to you is from work you carried out for a company based in the country you live and work in then your remedies are against that legal entity, not the directors. You'll probably need to seek legal advice but an option open to you is to petition for that company's winding up (or equivalent action depending on how it works in the country you are in).

mwarby

It's worth bearing in mind that if you go as far as getting company would up, you may only see a tiny fraction of the money you are owed, in some cases there maybe nothing left after the company is wound up. This process if it got to that stage would take many many months and no doubt cost you a lot in legal fees. You would need to seriously consider the financial state of the company and your ability to survive until the action finished, there's perhaps little value in ending up bankrupt yourself (where the bankruptcy may swallow all the money your due) pursuing a hopeless action.

Of course it could also be that the threat of such action prompts them to settle without going down that route. I'm not saying give up, but just be careful

djcat

Flyright said:

If the money owed to you is from work you carried out for a company based in the country you live and work in then your remedies are against that legal entity, not the directors. You'll probably need to seek legal advice but an option open to you is to petition for that company's winding up (or equivalent action depending on how it works in the country you are in).

Well that is exactly what the company owners want to do, they filed the business for bankruptcy where I live, trying to avoid paying anything. They really wanted to run the business into the ground here, just expecting me to work towards their income without them having to pay me for that. They try to avoid any responsibilities, civil and criminally. 

However, in England if a business owes you money, you can ask for it from the company owner, hence the suggestion of my friend to issue a statutory demand note against them personally.

djcat

mwarby said:

It's worth bearing in mind that if you go as far as getting company would up, you may only see a tiny fraction of the money you are owed, in some cases there maybe nothing left after the company is wound up. This process if it got to that stage would take many many months and no doubt cost you a lot in legal fees. You would need to seriously consider the financial state of the company and your ability to survive until the action finished, there's perhaps little value in ending up bankrupt yourself (where the bankruptcy may swallow all the money your due) pursuing a hopeless action.

Of course it could also be that the threat of such action prompts them to settle without going down that route. I'm not saying give up, but just be careful

That is the logic of the company owners, as stated in my other reply. However there are two more factors to consider:

- The laws of the country where I live, where such actions (running the business into the ground on purpose) could sent them to jail.

- That I can ask the company owners for monies owed to me by the business in England.

Trying to make me give up is also what the owners expect me to do, hence it is not what I will do.

mwarby

I'm no lawyer but I suspect that its the laws in England which will take precedence, a court in a foreign country can't typically send people in another country to jail (unless they committed a crime while in the country)

Anyway you seem set on legal action, best of luck with it

mwarby

djcat said:

However, in England if a business owes you money, you can ask for it from the company owner, hence the suggestion of my friend to issue a statutory demand note against them personally.

You can ask what to who you want, but if the company is a limited company the asking may not get you far. If you are owed money by a limited company, its the company which owes you the money not the directors.

The limited company limits the directors liability, its the whole point, it allows the creators of the business to take risks that they would otherwise be unable or unwilling to take. If the company is insolvent or ceases to exist and yiu can claim personally against the directors there would be no point in forming the limited company

The obvious exception here is that many banks require personal guarantees from the directors, to cover any loans they give the business. If you have one of these then your in a good place, but it would be very unusual to give one to an employee

djcat

mwarby said:

... (unless they committed a crime while in the country)

Precisely....thanks.

djcat

mwarby said:

djcat said:

However, in England if a business owes you money, you can ask for it from the company owner, hence the suggestion of my friend to issue a statutory demand note against them personally.

The limited company limits the directors liability, its the whole point, it allows the creators of the business to take risks that they would otherwise be unable or unwilling to take. If the company is insolvent or ceases to exist and yiu can claim personally against the directors there would be no point in forming the limited company

The point is that I will have an official claim of money against the company issued by a regional court of law, no matter what legal entity type it is. Given that it is possible to claim against the company owners instead of the company itself in England, I would like to know if anybody has any experience in claiming in such matters.

All the other aspects (tax evasion, fraud, fake bankruptcy....) I will take up with a local court here if I need to. What I like to know right now is if it is possible to claim for the monies owed to me. Thanks.

MinuteNoodles

djcat said:

 What I like to know right now is if it is possible to claim for the monies owed to me. Thanks.

Not in England against a foreign company which the courts have no jurisdiction over under the Insolvency Act, even though its owners live in the UK and have another business registered here. You'll have to use the legal system in the country that company is registered.

djcat

MinuteNoodles said:

djcat said:

 What I like to know right now is if it is possible to claim for the monies owed to me. Thanks.

Not in England against a foreign company which the courts have no jurisdiction over under the Insolvency Act, even though its owners live in the UK and have another business registered here. You'll have to use the legal system in the country that company is registered.

But I have claimed money against a business owner in England whilst living there before, does it matter where the debt happened? This is not a claim against their business, it is against the owners.

Why?

I see that in England, as much as where I live, once it is obvious that a business will be insolvent, the business directors need to act in the creditors best interest. The business directors / company owners also have a duty of care and can not act fraudulently, signing a document which represents that a company has capacity to meet its obligations in circumstances where he or she knows that it does not.