Pension mis selling

PENSION_MUG

Please please help I have followed through on advice given to me that I was misold my pension in 1989, I contacted the Fscs and was told that I had to write to the financial adviser I did this and he replied that I was out of time, so I contacted the firm that I transfered to Norwich Union /Aviva they said they were not responsible that was the financial adviser who I originally dealt with. I was then told to go through the ombudsman which I did the adjudicator looked at the case and said that I should of been aware by 2013, I argued my case and eventually she agreed I had a case, she said that she had to contact the financial advisor who obviously disagreed and said I was out of time, so even though the adjudicator said I should not be time barred it got passed to the ombudsman who found in the financial advisor's favour, I appealled but he said I should have been aware by 2013 and claimed by 2016 based on the fact that the policy projections would not have realised anywhere near what they should have before I transfered, thus going against the adjudicator decision that I should not be time barred. This has got me at my wit's end I have wrote back offering to go to an Alternative Dispute Resolution but again was told they would not open the case unless there was new evidence. I thought I had a good case as originally the financial adviser told me the original scheme was being wound up and that's why I transfered, he says he tried to contact me in 1999 with a questionnaire which I did not return because I did not live at that address I examined that I had never been informed by him that he would continue as my advisor and did not update my address with him but I did with the firm I transfered to as I thought they had responsibility for the pension, at no point throughout the years had I been informed there was any problem so it was only in 2018 that I found out that the scheme hadn't closed though a friend who used to work at the same place so that's when I thought the 3year rule for becoming reasonably aware would begin, so once again help someone give me some good advice that will not cost me a fortune thank you pension_mug 

[Deleted User]

Time to let this one go.

dunstonh

 I have followed through on advice given to me that I was misold my pension in 1989,

Who gave that advice and why haven't they explained how to do it or the issues that may prevent you from doing it?

I contacted the Fscs and was told that I had to write to the financial adviser I did this and he replied that I was out of time, 

The FSCS only consider post regulation complaints where the advice firm is no longer trading.

There are timebars that can exist.   They can only be put in place if the rules are met.  if they are not met, then you cannot be timebarred.  If you feel the timebar is incorrect, then you have the right to refer the complaint to the FOS.....

 I was then told to go through the ombudsman which I did the adjudicator looked at the case and said that I should of been aware by 2013, I argued my case and eventually she agreed I had a case, she said that she had to contact the financial advisor who obviously disagreed and said I was out of time, so even though the adjudicator said I should not be time barred it got passed to the ombudsman who found in the financial advisor's favour, 

Timebars exist in law as well as areas of regulation.   If the FOS have confirmed the timebar is valid then that route is now closed to you.

I appealled but he said I should have been aware by 2013 and claimed by 2016 based on the fact that the policy projections would not have realised anywhere near what they should have before I transfered,

Gross Investment returns (of inflation) have been falling for decades.  The projection rates used by firms are defined by the regulator.   With hindsight, we know projection rates in 1989 were too high. However, they were still lower than historic past performance.   However, they have been understating what is likely for many years now.   

You are supplied projections on your pension each and every year.  Sometimes quarterly or half yearly with some providers.   So, you should have had plenty of time to raise a complaint if you were unhappy.   

I am not sure what happened in 2013 that made them pick that point to trigger the timebar.  Possibly its the last statement readily available (6 years data protection deletions?).

thus going against the adjudicator decision that I should not be time barred. 

adjudicators are great with simple stuff but not with the more complicated stuff.  The ombudsman is more knowledgeable in the more complicated areas.

at no point throughout the years had I been informed there was any problem

There isn't any problem to notify you about.   However, you had statements each and every year (at least) and if you felt there was a problem, you had plenty of time to raise it.

 so it was only in 2018 that I found out that the scheme hadn't closed though a friend who used to work at the same place so that's when I thought the 3year rule for becoming reasonably aware would begin,

But from what you said earlier, that does not appear to be what you were complaining about? (refer back to the first quote for the reason).

so once again help someone give me some good advice that will not cost me a fortune 

You have eliminated the options available.

PENSION_MUG

The first part was by a friend that used to work in the same place, he was the person that alerted me and it was me who thought that there was a problem. The second part was the firm was no longer trading but the financial advisor was working independently so I had to write to him, you then talk about time bars but the three year is from when I become aware surely, there statement to say that 2013 was when I should have been aware I don't understand because the personal pension was doing as I had been told it would when I took it out which was between 4 and 8% and according to the ninth report by the treasury I should not base a misselling claim on the markets under performing 

dunstonh

 The second part was the firm was no longer trading but the financial advisor was working independently so I had to write to him

The fact the FOS looked at it suggest the adviser was self employed at the time.  Self employed advisers carry liability for life.  Whereas advisers working for a limited company carry liability only as long as the company is trading.

you then talk about time bars but the three year is from when I become aware surely,

Reasonably aware.  This includes letters sent out, even if you ignored them.

 there statement to say that 2013 was when I should have been aware I don't understand because the personal pension was doing as I had been told it would when I took it out which was between 4 and 8% and according to the ninth report by the treasury I should not base a misselling claim on the markets under performing 

You cannot complain about investment returns.   However, the crux of your complaint is that it has not given you what you expected.    So, when did that start appearing to be less than you expected?   They would look at old statements and have probably only been able to go back 6 years.    So, they are effectively saying that your expectations have probably not been what you though for the last 7 years (at least).  So, you should have complained within that time.

The FOS is quite firm on the timebars having a clear trigger point to start the 3 year clock.

Have you actually taken the pension yet or are you looking at current statement projections?  If projections then things may not be as bad as you think.    For a good number of years now, projections have been understating the likely outcome by using pretty much worst case scenarios.   Often between a quarter and a tenth of what you could get is appearing on the projection. 

PENSION_MUG

Thanks but I think you mis the crux of the argument and misselling point in that I was told the scheme had closed so I had to move the pension which I did the projections were about right so if I did not know the scheme was still running I thought the personal pension was running as it should the original pension was £6000 a year but the transfer value was only £2400 into a personal pension, the reason I am saying 2018 is when I became aware the scheme had not closed I did not transfer the original pension to try to financially better the pension it was because I was given misleading information by the adviser, the advisor was part of a company but the company shut in 2005 so that's why I went after the person as he was still working independently as per the advice from the FSCS

shortseller09

It would be much easier to follow what you are saying if you use punctuation to break up your stream of thoughts.

kuratowski

I don't think there is anything anyone can usefully do now, except to express sympathy to Pension_Mug that apparently they have lost out.  Unfortunately they have tried already every possible route of complaint and appeal, and there are no further avenues to pursue.

dunstonh

Thanks but I think you mis the crux of the argument and misselling point in that I was told the scheme had closed

That does not seem logical though. If the scheme had closed, they would have written to you in advance saying it was closing and detailing alternatives.         So, ON PAPER, it doesn't seem that reason would be considered likely. Especially after 3 decades.     

the projections were about right

If the projections are in line with expectations then what is the issue?      Whether a scheme closed or not isn't really a complaint reason.    And your comments earlier seemed to indicate that it was based on projections not meeting expectations.   

the advisor was part of a company but the company shut in 2005 so that's why I went after the person as he was still working independently as per the advice from the FSCS

The only way the adviser carries liability for a complaint is if they were a sole trader/partner at the time of the sale.   If it was under a limited company that closed in 2005, then the complaint cannot be considered by the FOS and the adviser at the time would not have to consider it either.     Independent status does not change that.    The fact the FOS did consider it and the FSCS would not suggests that the adviser was self employed or in a partnership.

However, that is largely irrelevant for you now as you are out of options.  Whether you were missold or not, the FOS was your only route and they have said no.

Brynsam

PENSION_MUG said:

Thanks but I think you mis the crux of the argument and misselling point in that I was told the scheme had closed so I had to move the pension which I did the 

No, you didn't have to move the pension because the scheme had closed. It would simply have stayed as a deferred pension in a closed scheme, so that argument doesn't wash. If the scheme had been closed and wound up, then you could either have moved your pension or the trustees would have 'bought out' your benefits with an insurer.

PENSION_MUG

Once again pension were a relatively new thing especially to the ordinary workers that's why it frustrates me so much when you hear some one say consult a financial adviser if I hadn't I wouldn't be in this mess!