Getting paid (or not) got bank holidays on furlough leave

nicechap

This question is more for new readers as I don't really understand rules around furlough.

Suppose someone is furloughed for 3 months - so 3 months not working.  Is their annual leave reduced by 3 months worth too? - so 28 days annual becomes 21 days for the year in which furlough happens? 

General_Grant

nicechap said:

This question is more for new readers as I don't really understand rules around furlough.

Suppose someone is furloughed for 3 months - so 3 months not working.  Is their annual leave reduced by 3 months worth too? - so 28 days annual becomes 21 days for the year in which furlough happens? 

AIUI, they retain their entitlement but they can be required to take paid leave during that time and, for the holiday, they should be paid their full contracted pay, not 80%.   (A bit like retaining statutory paid leave entitlement when you are off sick.)

LilElvis

General_Grant said:

nicechap said:

This question is more for new readers as I don't really understand rules around furlough.

Suppose someone is furloughed for 3 months - so 3 months not working.  Is their annual leave reduced by 3 months worth too? - so 28 days annual becomes 21 days for the year in which furlough happens? 

AIUI, they retain their entitlement but they can be required to take paid leave during that time and, for the holiday, they should be paid their full contracted pay, not 80%.   (A bit like retaining statutory paid leave entitlement when you are off sick.)

Which would explain why agencies and former employers are so reticent to furlough - because in 3 months they could be faced with substantial claims for holiday pay which they would be liable for.

Forum_Name

Right well i went through my calculations and worked out 80% and it matches to the penny what i got paid.

So i have obviously not been paid for the bank holidays. Clearly this has either been intention, which i actually don't believe, or it's been an oversight where they've either forgotten to pay it or they felt they didn't need to.

Right now i would be quite happy with an additional 2 days to take as i please. Works out well for me. I can't see them allowing that though so on that not can they say well we didn't realise we hadn't paid it so we'll pay you it in some other months pay packet, be that next month, the month after or whatever?
I imagine they probably can. Employers seem to be able to do just about anything but i thought i would ask all the same.

Forum_Name

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

Employees whose pay varies
If the employee has been employed for 12 months or more, you can claim the highest of either the:

• same month’s earning from the previous year

• average monthly earnings for the 2019-2020 tax year

So i have worked mine out as i fell in to the average monthly earnings category.
A co-worker has asked me to calculate if they have been paid correctly and i can't get their pay to match my figures.

Their first week of furlough began in March but ended in April so i'm unsure of "same months earnings". The week in question is included in April's payment so that's the one that i took: April.

I compared this to their P60 gross / 12. April turned out to be higher.

Question is how do you break that down in to a weekly payment to check if they have been paid correctly?

I took their April payment and divided it by 4 (weeks) by 5 (weeks), i multiplied it by 12 (to give a yearly figure) and then divided that (yearly figure) by 52 (weeks in the year). Not a single one of those outcomes matched. It wasn't even really that close. 

Comms69

Forum_Name said:

Right well i went through my calculations and worked out 80% and it matches to the penny what i got paid.

So i have obviously not been paid for the bank holidays. Clearly this has either been intention, which i actually don't believe, or it's been an oversight where they've either forgotten to pay it or they felt they didn't need to.

Right now i would be quite happy with an additional 2 days to take as i please. Works out well for me. I can't see them allowing that though so on that not can they say well we didn't realise we hadn't paid it so we'll pay you it in some other months pay packet, be that next month, the month after or whatever?
I imagine they probably can. Employers seem to be able to do just about anything but i thought i would ask all the same.

Keep in mind it's not 2 days to take as you please, it's just to paid days off. Your employer might - sensibly - decide to just close for a long weekend so everyone's entitlement is used without worrying about fitting in all thos eextra days and try keep business ticking over

General_Grant

Comms69 said:

Forum_Name said:

Right well i went through my calculations and worked out 80% and it matches to the penny what i got paid.

So i have obviously not been paid for the bank holidays. Clearly this has either been intention, which i actually don't believe, or it's been an oversight where they've either forgotten to pay it or they felt they didn't need to.

Right now i would be quite happy with an additional 2 days to take as i please. Works out well for me. I can't see them allowing that though so on that not can they say well we didn't realise we hadn't paid it so we'll pay you it in some other months pay packet, be that next month, the month after or whatever?
I imagine they probably can. Employers seem to be able to do just about anything but i thought i would ask all the same.

Keep in mind it's not 2 days to take as you please, it's just to paid days off. Your employer might - sensibly - decide to just close for a long weekend so everyone's entitlement is used without worrying about fitting in all thos eextra days and try keep business ticking over

But remember that, for the OP, they believe they received only 80% rather than 100% for paid annual leave for the bank holidays forming part of their annual entitlement.

Comms69

General_Grant said:

Comms69 said:

Forum_Name said:

Right well i went through my calculations and worked out 80% and it matches to the penny what i got paid.

So i have obviously not been paid for the bank holidays. Clearly this has either been intention, which i actually don't believe, or it's been an oversight where they've either forgotten to pay it or they felt they didn't need to.

Right now i would be quite happy with an additional 2 days to take as i please. Works out well for me. I can't see them allowing that though so on that not can they say well we didn't realise we hadn't paid it so we'll pay you it in some other months pay packet, be that next month, the month after or whatever?
I imagine they probably can. Employers seem to be able to do just about anything but i thought i would ask all the same.

Keep in mind it's not 2 days to take as you please, it's just to paid days off. Your employer might - sensibly - decide to just close for a long weekend so everyone's entitlement is used without worrying about fitting in all thos eextra days and try keep business ticking over

But remember that, for the OP, they believe they received only 80% rather than 100% for paid annual leave for the bank holidays forming part of their annual entitlement.

Yes i just meant that the employer may decide that accommodating 22 days of 'chosen' leave would be impractical to the business.

Forum_Name

I can assure you never in a million years would they close when they don’t actually have to. 
Also when I say “as I please” that’s just how everyone I know talks about their holiday. Nobody ever says I have 28 days holiday. I only ever see that kind of talk from employers or people on the internet. The 8 days for us are the bank holidays and set so we just say we have 20 days holiday. That’s how we all talk. 

i also don’t think they paid me 80%. I calculated 80% and it matched to the exact penny what they paid me so they did pay me 80%. 

Do you you have any idea how I could calculate my co workers pay to see how they’ve been paid? We cannot get to the figure at all. 

Galaxy99

I have recently returned to work after being on furlough.
The subject of holidays and bank holidays has been raised, while furloughed I was not asked if I wanted to take Bank holidays as paid leave, neither did I ask. My employer is now saying they will pay me 4 x 20% for the 4 bank holidays that occured during my period of furlough and stating that they didnt need to liase with me as my contract states the bank holidays.I have stated that I would prefer to have the 4 days as fully paid leave at some other time later in the year or carry over.
They have informed me that they will not be allowing me to have them in lieu, and that the top up payment is all I'm entitled to, I have argued that no consultation was conducted at the time of being on furlough, and therefore I am entitled to have them given back to me to take at a later date.
Can anyone throw any light on this as seems a grey area, the rules are more clear cut on accruing A/L etc.
Basically as I was not paid for them while on furlough, can my employer backtrack and try to just pay me a top up payment, several months later, or can I insist they give them back for me to take.