Indemnity Claim Fraud

domino12345

Terry_Towelling said:

If your ex-partner was there at the time the paperwork was completed and gave his bank details, he would have been asked to sign off the DD instruction.  The paperwork would also have asked for the account holder's name - so what name was entered on the form?  There is no way the dealer would have let you sign off an instruction to take money from an account that wasn't yours.  On what basis do you think he managed to convince his bank that (three years after the fact) the payments were taken in error?

I imagine you will have thought up answers to these questions that nicely deflect them.

This is what i would have thought too, the finance company have checked through the details and he never signed anything. I have also recently asked why did no one notice my name was different to the bank details and got told that "anyone can put their bank details down for a direct debit", which i have read online that in theory you should not be able to do this. So i need more professional advice i think. 

I have no idea how he has convinced his bank to give him back the money, but i intend to find out.

As for your last remark, what do you mean by this? 

domino12345

eddddy said:

domino12345 said:

Does anyone know why he didn't claim the full amount of money either? Could he do it again? 

Just a guess - but a DD indemnity claim should only be made if money has been taken in error. So he may have wanted to make up an error that sounded plausible, like "The DD should have only been taken for 2 years, so the payments taken after 2 years were errors."

In theory, there's nothing to stop him telling his bank that the earlier DD payments were errors as well - and getting those back.

But if that guess is correct, he's probably guilty of "Fraud by false representation" (i.e. lying to make a gain for himself) which is a criminal offence.

But whether the police would be interested is another matter. And even if he was prosecuted, that wouldn't necessarily mean you get any money back. 

This makes me feel slightly hopeful. Thankyou, i think this is going to be a long and legal battle. But i intend to stick at it, i don't think i should have to foot the bill for someone else's car especially when i made sure it was paid off by them. 

domino12345

Just incase someone is reading this thread, I thought it may help for me to explain the outcome of this horrendous situation! 

So, after months and month of battling against the company who wanted money off me, trying to get my ex to pay back the money he fraudulently claimed, ringing and talking to everyone I could think of and going into banks to get more information, I eventually WON my case in August this year!!! 

I'll try and keep this short but the best advice I can give, is write everything down, every single phone call, who you talked to, what was said, times and dates. It really helped me keep on top of what I had done, I ended up with a file of documents, letters, and over 17 pages of lists of people I talked to and info on what was said. 

I had multiple conversations with the finance company, I even got a solicitor to write to them as my solicitor believed that what my ex had done was fraud and that getting involved would make the company back down, but it didn't. They just said that they sympathised with me however, as the finance is in my name I should look at an 'affordable way to make payments'. I simply refused to do this, and therefore got passed onto a debt collector. My ex kept claiming DD indemnities and the total rose to over £8,000! Absolutely ridiculous, as you can imagine I was distraught. I contemplated paying the original £1,500 (before the amount started to increase), I even contemplated getting married and changing my name, I was that desperate for it to go away! Luckily, I didn't do any of this, I persisted and just kept asking anyone and everyone for help. 

Eventually, it was decided from my solicitor that the finance company were legally in their right, (even though they should have questioned the indemnities which I asked them to multiple times). Therefore, I needed to go after my ex, letters were sent to address' I believed he lived but wasn't quite sure, this didn't work. The next stages were to be a statutory demand for the money he had claimed and then eventually bankruptcy.  This worried me because if my ex had spent all the money (which is very much like him), or owed money to others, then I may have paid over £3,000 to my solicitor to do this, and he may not have had any money left to give me, putting me in further debt and also wiping any debts of his! 

Before starting any formal demands for money, my solicitor advised me to try and ring the police (again) as they believed it was fraud, according to them, he was committing fraud 'under false representation, to make a financial gain for himself'. I have re-read the comments and see that someone did mention this back in February (thank you @eddddy !), but I was such a novice to all that jargon so it didn't make sense at the time.  I rang the police, back in February when the amount was only £1500 and they said it isn't something they deal with however, I was not liable to pay that money and I should write to the finance company and tell them, which I did, and they just passed me onto a debt collector. This time ringing the police, the amount had risen a lot, and they agreed that it was fraud and put me through to 'action fraud', who took all my details and opened a case for me! Shortly after a received an email stating that 'Action fraud' don't deal with identity fraud (which is wasn't) and my case was closed.  After talking to my solicitor they implored me to ring action fraud again, I did and it turns out the person on the phone had listed my case under the wrong category! This time, after I filled the form out online myself, with help from a lovely member of staff, I received an email a few hours later stating that they were sorry I had been a victim of fraud and that they would refer my case to the bureau, they said I would hear back from them within four weeks. After four weeks of hearing nothing, I contacted them and they stated that my case actually didn't have a time frame.... that was back in May, so we will see if anything comes from that. 

I also complained to the Financial Ombudsman in March, I contacted them once to keep them up to date with any progress or changes of the total amount, and they stated there still hadn't been anyone even look at my case. In August once my case had been resolved, I contacted them to say I no longer needed their services and coincidentally they then got back to me with someone who had been assigned to my case, asking if it could be closed. Not a four month time scale as originally promised, I understand Covid has slowed things down but with how helpless I have felt, they really didn't help my situation at all! 

My saving grace was when a friend recommended I write to my local, Blackburn MP. I'll be honest, I really didn't think that with Covid going on and all the other problems MP's have to deal with, that mine would be responded to, however, I literally had tried everything I could think of. I wrote a handwritten letter and sent it to Blackburn MP's office. A few days later I received a phone call from her assistant stating how disgusted she was with how I had been treated and after reading my letter, she passed it straight onto the MP! She said that they both couldn't believe the police didn't help me in the first place, as in their eyes this was fraud and my ex should be stopped. I sent a load of documents over as requested and within days I received a letter from the house of commons detailing that the MP had gotten in touch with the director of the finance company and also the debt collector. Eventually, the MP wrote to the Financial Conduct Authority on my behalf and I think this is what did it. I first contacted the MP in June and in then in August I received a phone call from the finance company, stating that after 'further investigation', they can now see that they had 'made an error on their part'. They should have questioned why the account was re opened after so many years, when the balance was cleared and raised a complaint to the bank, but they didn't. They apologised and offered to reimburse me for my solicitors cost and also gave me £500 compensation. They in fact shouldn't of actually rung me, as any communication should of been between them and my solicitor, however they did and I accepted the offer, I just wanted it to be over. Once I got off the phone, I absolutely balled my eyes out because, after months of sleepless nights, anxiety, and just feeling hopeless, I had won! I actually believe with how quick the company were to reimburse me without asking for proof of solicitors costs, I could of pushed for more money, but I didn't want to be greedy and I didn't want to spend anymore of my life fighting. 

The FCA did ask if I wanted to take it further but I didn't, instead I wrote a letter explaining all the many ways I had been let down and basically 'fobbed off' by a lot of people and companies that were mean't to help me. I also sent the detailed 17 pages of phone call logs, just so they were aware of everything that had happened. They have assured me that this will never happen again and the finance company are looking into any similar cases. 

If it wasn't for the MP and her assistant, I have no doubt I would still be in that mess, because all the 'go to' complaint companies, haven't been very helpful. I'm lucky I have such a good support network but even though I am quite a cheerful person, this really affected me and with constant knock downs, I felt utterly hopeless. 

In September I also received some information and screenshots of a man in Warrington who was offering to help people to get money, and he even put a picture of my ex's bank account with money he had claimed on his facebook! Therefore the MP has now sent this to Action Fraud and I really hope my ex and his helper get what they deserve!  

Sorry for the long thread, but some of the replies I originally received on here weren't very hopeful and if someone is going through this right now, don't give up! Just keep pushing, and good luck. 

superbigal

A great result for you but can you update if the boyfriend is being pursued by anyone ?

lordmountararat

Inspirational! And well done for having the guts to persevere. 

nyermen

Glad it went well for you.  We've seen reports here of this happening with Amigo Loan repayments, and suddenly the guarantor being contacted with demands.  Ironic that sometimes it can be a fight to get the DD guarantee correctly used, and yet this sort of thing can be nodded through.

sourcrates

Yes very well done, although i have to say I cannot understand why any bank would start to re-claim so many DD payments after such a long time, and why it didn`t raise a red flag with both them, and the finance company, until i read what i have posted below, seems to be open to a series of systemic failures there I would agree.

This from the DD Guarantee -

"Under the Direct Debit Guarantee, the rules around refunds are particularly strong. A customer can request a refund for any payment and, provided the bank agrees with the validity of their claim, the customer will receive an immediate refund. Further, there is no time limit on when claims can be made".

domino12345

superbigal said:

A great result for you but can you update if the boyfriend is being pursued by anyone ?

Thanks apologises for a late reply, I forgot to check back on here! Unfortunately I haven't heard anything from anyone, Action Fraud really should get in touch with me and I think next month I will ask them if they are still investigating, as I'll be really angry if they have stopped. I think due to the whole 'GDPR' I can't find out if my ex is being pursued by the finance company, I really hope he is, he bloody well should be. I'm expecting a nasty message one day off him and then I'll know that something is probably being done. 

The Financial Ombudsman have sent me a survey to review, so I will be giving a few home truths there. Oh and the finance company sent me a statement the other day, my heart started pounding because it showed the full amount (over £8,000) that I had previously 'owed', at the top then included the compensation they gave me. You would think after everything I've been through they would firstly write a little statement explaining what the letter was,(maybe a apology too!) I held my breath until i got to the bottom were the statement read £0! 

Apart from that I've heard nothing. I will post an update on here should I ever find out if he's finally had to pay the money back. 

Thank you all for the kind comments  I really hope that my thread has helped someone sort their problem! '

domino12345

sourcrates said:

Yes very well done, although i have to say I cannot understand why any bank would start to re-claim so many DD payments after such a long time, and why it didn`t raise a red flag with both them, and the finance company, until i read what i have posted below, seems to be open to a series of systemic failures there I would agree.

This from the DD Guarantee -

"Under the Direct Debit Guarantee, the rules around refunds are particularly strong. A customer can request a refund for any payment and, provided the bank agrees with the validity of their claim, the customer will receive an immediate refund. Further, there is no time limit on when claims can be made".

Thanks! I asked the bank who the indemnities were paid out of this and they said they can not 'flag up' things just because I asked them too, the finance company have to raise an issue with them personally and then they will investigate. When I explained to and asked the finance company to do this they simply said no, because theres been no wrong doing. Its ridiculous. The DD guarantee definitely has some flaws.