Redo disciplinary after I’ve won an appeal?

Tedsmom

Hi, I have a question that no amount of searching on the net seems to be able to answer. At the start of the year I was invited to a disciplinary at work for failure to follow a reasonable management request. Regardless of if that was accurate which I obviously don’t agree I went through a farce of a disciplinary the result of which was a Written warning. Because the disciplinary had been so bad I appealed and was informed in writing that the appeal had been up held and the warning would be wiped off my record. Result you think? No because now they investigate it again and have invited me to a new disciplinary which they’ve added swearing to with the possibility that I could be dismissed. And because I pointed out all their errors they have brought an outside HR in for the meeting. My question is surely it’s not ok to keep investigating and disciplining until they get the answer they want? I feel pretty harassed at this point as they seem determined to get rid of me how many times can they keep doing this is it even ok for them to do it again? Any advice would be appreciated 

KatrinaWaves

How long have you worked at the company? 

Diamandis

I assume appeal you submitted was due to an error in following process or similar? They can now correct thst error by ensuring the right process is followed. 

TELLIT01

Just to clarify, the original disciplinary was not for swearing?  That being the case they are perfectly at liberty to have another disciplinary for swearing.  Are you suggesting that if you successfully appeal against one disciplinary you are exempt from all future ones?

Tedsmom

I’ve worked for them about 8 years. They completed the first disciplinary I appealed due to the process they followed they agreed with me and upheld my appeal. They then started the whole thing again only added swearing onto the original complaint bearing in mind the incident happened two months ago and I don’t remember swearing. If I’d done something new of course they can raise a disciplinary but this seems to be away of punishing me for daring to appeal and pointing out their terrible process

Tedsmom

Surely once an appeal has been upheld that should be it? Are they allowed to keep going until they manage to get me?

Lomast

If your appeal was.upheld on the basis of the process being wrong then it.would be appropriate for them to remove the warning and restart the disciplinary process again ensuring that the correct procedure is followed.

If however your appeal was upheld because new evidence has come to light and proved the original decision wrong then they would not be able to have another go at the same disciplinary.

Undervalued

Tedsmom said:

Surely once an appeal has been upheld that should be it? Are they allowed to keep going until they manage to get me?

Sorry, clearly that is what you want somebody to say and the spin you want to put on it but, based on what you have told us, I don't think they are doing anything wrong.

Firstly, as I understand it, your appeal was about the process they followed rather than the substance of the "offence". They upheld your appeal then decided to hear the whole matter again. That could well be perfectly fair in law.

There is also a new allegation which could be a disciplinary matter in itself. So they are hearing that at the same time. Again nothing wrong in that.

Also, keep in mind there are no longer statutory procedures that must be followed to the letter. There are ACAS guidelines which, if followed, are a safe way for an employer to proceed. However, alternative processes can also be perfectly lawful providing they are reasonably fair. This is not a court of law and employers are not expected to have the legal expertise of a high court judge! All that is required is that they make a reasonable effort to be fair and hold a "reasonable belief" that the misconduct took place before imposing any sanction.

Finally, there is no legal redress against any disciplinary sanction short of dismissal. You cannot take a warning to an employment tribunal.

TBagpuss

Yes, as other posters have said, if you appealed because they failed to follow a proper process then it is entirely lawful and fair for them to restart the process using the correct procedure.
Also, they only have to follow a fair procedure and to reach a decision which is reasonable - they don't have to have absolute proof or even proof that would stand up in court, simply to reach a decision which is within the range of reasonable outcomes on the particular facts. 
Obviously you are able to put your side of the story and if they are saying that the swearing related to the same incident, it would be reasonable for you to raise the fact that the allegation of swearing wasn't previously mentioned, which is odd if they are now saying that it is so serious that it could warrant you being dismissed.

It is also possible that the reason they are saying dismissal is possible is to ensure that they are now following a proper procedure and are therefore making sure that, in their letter to you, they are covering all the potential outcomes. It doesn't necessarily mean that they are actually looking to dismiss you.