After the Universal Startup Period?

Poppy_Golightly

I'm on Universal Credit and I've been told to be Self-Employed now and I've been given the 52 week start up period. I am worried that if I am making peanuts after the 52 weeks are up will they stop paying Universal Credit completely? From what I understand they apply this minimum floor thing and if you earn below it, then that's your loss and you get nothing?

Really worried about this.

Spoonie_Turtle

If you're earning peanuts by the end then you can ask them to review whether you are considered to be 'gainfully self-employed'. The MIF only applies if you are, and if you aren't, then the MIF won't apply but you'll then be subject to work-related requirements, so it's a bit of a double-edged sword.

calcotti

The rule is intended to make people think hard about whether their self-employment is viable. One can debate whether a 12 month start up period is appropriate (finding windows to clean or developing software to sell might be different) is a point one can discuss, The intent to stop people claiming to be self employed while living off benefits is also understandable although the way the MIF is applied is a blunt instrument that takes no account of the fact that self employed earnings can fluctuate wildly - even if billing is regular not everyone pays on time.

Poppy_Golightly

Thanks to you both for the clarifications. I had no option, I was told I had to become self-employed, no argument. I will try my best but I really don't envisage myself turning over thousands in my first year no matter how much 'support' they claim to give you!

tomtom256

Poppy_Golightly said:

Thanks to you both for the clarifications. I had no option, I was told I had to become self-employed, no argument. I will try my best but I really don't envisage myself turning over thousands in my first year no matter how much 'support' they claim to give you!

Who told you, you had to become self-employed?

calcotti

Poppy_Golightly said:

I was told I had to become self-employed, no argument.

You can’t be forced to be self employed. If it’s a case of you wanting to do whatever you do rather than look for employment then you would be treated as self employed.

Poppy_Golightly

I was self-employed a good few  years ago but the work dried up. I didn't claim until last year and they then had me looking for work which was fair enough. No luck, I think I was too old (but extremely experienced) for all the jobs I went for. So now they've decided I should be self-employed again. After the startup period finishes I then have eight months until I get the State Pension! I am getting too old and too tired for all this poncing around! Still I will give this self-employment my best shot and who knows, maybe the best is yet to come???

huckster

So if you are earnings are not enough to be considered gainfully self employed, you agree to search for a part time job.  
If you don't agree with the decision to find you self employed, you can go through the complaints process.
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-work-pensions/about/complaints-procedure
Have seen people earning next to nothing continue to battle on with the minimum income floor applied and refusing to search for any normal employment.  They have ended up in food banks, with debts piling up.
After expenses, how much are you earning from self employment per month ?

calcotti

Poppy_Golightly said:

.... they've decided I should be self-employed again. 

I am convinced they cannot do this. If you are agree to look for employment for 35 hours/week you are a jobseeker. Even if your I do a few bits of occasional work for which you are paid that doesn’t make you self employed. As huckster says, challenge the decision if you don’t want to be treated this way.

tomtom256

calcotti said:

Poppy_Golightly said:

.... they've decided I should be self-employed again. 

I am convinced they cannot do this. If you are agree to look for employment for 35 hours/week you are a jobseeker. Even if your I do a few bits of occasional work for which you are paid that doesn’t make you self employed. As huckster says, challenge the decision if you don’t want to be treated this way.

You are right calcoti, it's the customers choice whether they want to be self-employed or not, you cannot be forced into this as work coaches are not allowed to tell you to do this.

They should give you the options and let you decide what you want to do.

NedS

huckster said:

So if you are earnings are not enough to be considered gainfully self employed, 

There is no consideration given to earnings when considering if someone is gainfully self employed. It makes no difference if you are earning £150, £1500, or £15,000/month.

EDIT: Other than HMRCs limit of £1000 a year to be considered self employed