Multiple separate LGPS pensions

water4444

I should add my new pension is an investment pension, so if I put the money into that, hopefully it will be worth more in 40 years that it would be in the LGPS.

water4444

hyubh said:

You appear to be confusing annual pension amounts at normal retirement age vs. a current figure for funding your likely total pension payments in the future (notwithstanding the fact a CETV in the LGPS arguably low-balls the latter, that is what it represents, and is what the 30K refers to). 

My guess is that the 18K is from an ABS when you were still active, and hypothesises if you had stayed an active member until NRD, at your then-current level of pay. 

I am happy to admit I don't really understand these pensions (clearly).
My assumption was, that these pensions would only ever be worth a small amount. An amount so small it would not make any difference in 40 years.

The statement says "The following benefits are based on the pension record as of ***" This is where the £500 (per annum) is. These are rough figures.

Then it says with conversion, I could take a lump sum of £2050 with a residual pension of £300 per annum.

Then it gives a projection that what I would be paid per year at 65 if I had continued to pay into the pension, and that is the higher figure. (£13,500) per annum.

I assumed as I do not pay into these pensions, the price they are worth per year when I retired would not rise much compared to what they are worth now. So when I retire, the money they would pay out per year would still be a small amount or equivalent of small amount in 40 years time. I am not going to pay any more money in. That is why I never assumed they would be worth more than 30k at all.

JoeCrystal

water4444 said:

I assumed as I do not pay into these pensions, the price they are worth per year when I retired would not rise much compared to what they are worth now. So when I retire, the money they would pay out per year would still be a small amount or equivalent of small amount in 40 years time. I am not going to pay any more money in. That is why I never assumed they would be worth more than 30k at all.

They will be index-linked, so they will still be worth £1,000 that far ahead in the future. Besides, what if you work for a local government again? I would keep it, to be honest.

water4444

JoeCrystal said:

water4444 said:

I assumed as I do not pay into these pensions, the price they are worth per year when I retired would not rise much compared to what they are worth now. So when I retire, the money they would pay out per year would still be a small amount or equivalent of small amount in 40 years time. I am not going to pay any more money in. That is why I never assumed they would be worth more than 30k at all.

They will be index-linked, so they will still be worth £1,000 that far ahead in the future. Besides, what if you work for a local government again? I would keep it, to be honest.

Thanks for the info. I will see what they are worth when they give me the value. I would hope investing the money would mean it is worth more in 40 years time. It is a gamble I am willing to take given the "small" amounts.

AlanP_2

The relative value of your investment pension may well be worth more than the value of the CETVs on offer in 40 years time but so what?

THE relevant comparison is to how much income for the following 40 years you can get from that invested pot, index linked and guaranteed to keep paying out until the day you die when it will pay a lower value spouses pension if that's applicable to your circumstances.

Look at a few of the threads on here, many people with an investment DC pension would rather have a guaranteed public sector pension. 

AlanP_2

The relative value of your investment pension may well be worth more than the value of the CETVs on offer in 40 years time but so what?

THE relevant comparison is to how much income for the following 40 years you can get from that invested pot, index linked and guaranteed to keep paying out until the day you die when it will pay a lower value spouses pension if that's applicable to your circumstances.

Look at a few of the threads on here, many people with an investment DC pension would rather have a guaranteed public sector pension.

I'm speaking as someone who joined the LGPS at 50 and transferred a 6 figure DC pot in to get that guaranteed income for life plus spouse pension for her life if longer. 

hyubh

water4444 said:

The statement says "The following benefits are based on the pension record as of ***" This is where the £500 (per annum) is. These are rough figures.

Then it says with conversion, I could take a lump sum of £2050 with a residual pension of £300 per annum.

Then it gives a projection that what I would be paid per year at 65 if I had continued to pay into the pension, and that is the higher figure. (£13,500) per annum.

OK. Where did the '£6000 and £18000' come from...?

That said, the 'projection' implies you are quoting from an annual benefit statement (ABS) from when you were still an active member. What do your latest deferred ABSs say...? Or failing that, your deferred benefit statements on leaving...? (Pretty uniquely amongst DB schemes, LGPS administrators have to produce deferred ABSs, though essentially this is about applying CPI to the previous year's total, and nowadays receipt might be via an internet portal unless you opt out.)

water4444

AlanP_2 said:

The relative value of your investment pension may well be worth more than the value of the CETVs on offer in 40 years time but so what?

THE relevant comparison is to how much income for the following 40 years you can get from that invested pot, index linked and guaranteed to keep paying out until the day you die when it will pay a lower value spouses pension if that's applicable to your circumstances.

Look at a few of the threads on here, many people with an investment DC pension would rather have a guaranteed public sector pension.

I'm speaking as someone who joined the LGPS at 50 and transferred a 6 figure DC pot in to get that guaranteed income for life plus spouse pension for her life if longer. 

It may keep paying out, but it will pay out relatively small amounts. What can one do with a rough estimate of £1500 a year (or the equivalent of that in 40 years time or 80 years time). If I had lots of money in it and it was going to pay out good money each year of course I would keep it, but I am only in my twenties, and I would rather take the gamble and hope the small amount is worth more by investing it, which would mean having a bigger pot to last me at the end of it. If I kept these pensions, and somehow ending up with nothing out of my new pension, £1500 a year isn't going to save me. I would rather have everything in one place if I can without much bother. 

water4444

hyubh said:

water4444 said:

The statement says "The following benefits are based on the pension record as of ***" This is where the £500 (per annum) is. These are rough figures.

Then it says with conversion, I could take a lump sum of £2050 with a residual pension of £300 per annum.

Then it gives a projection that what I would be paid per year at 65 if I had continued to pay into the pension, and that is the higher figure. (£13,500) per annum.

OK. Where did the '£6000 and £18000' come from...?

That said, the 'projection' implies you are quoting from an annual benefit statement (ABS) from when you were still an active member. What do your latest deferred ABSs say...? Or failing that, your deferred benefit statements on leaving...? (Pretty uniquely amongst DB schemes, LGPS administrators have to produce deferred ABSs, though essentially this is about applying CPI to the previous year's total, and nowadays receipt might be via an internet portal unless you opt out.)

I remember now the £6000 is "the total value of your scheme benefits in 2018". This is LGPS pension 4. The £18,000 is the value of the first LGPS pension (1) I had, I held another LGPS for about a year (LGPS 2) so I assume this would be worth about £6000 too. Which would be around 30k. But in separate pensions, so I am not sure if the financial advice rule applies in a transfer.

I have requested the transfer out value for each pension. Once I have those I will be in a better position to decide. I did not expect them to be "worth" this much. I have already been advised one of the pensions, the shortest (3) I was not in the scheme long enough and I should get a refund. It appears I had just under three months membership not as long as I thought. As such I have requested a refund. So only three pensions left to tackle!

I have not received any statements since leaving, or I have lost them. I am going by statements I received when I was an active member. When I log into the council with my two pensions, only the newest one is listed, indeed they appeared to lose my first larger pension for a few months when I contacted them, so I contacted them again and then they found it!

hyubh

water4444 said:

I remember now the £6000 is "the total value of your scheme benefits in 2018".

For Lifetime Allowance purposes maybe...?

I have already been advised one of the pensions, the shortest (3) I was not in the scheme long enough and I should get a refund. It appears I had just under three months membership not as long as I thought. As such I have requested a refund.

Would be better to argue it should be auto-aggregated with (4). A refund of your own contributions will be well short of the CETV for the same period, even if we are only talking about 3 months.

I have not received any statements since leaving, or I have lost them.

Ask for copies, and get your current address recorded.

When I log into the council with my two pensions, only the newest one is listed, indeed they appeared to lose my first larger pension for a few months when I contacted them, so I contacted them again and then they found it!

I shall not pry...