Under payment of State Pension

Robbie64

Dazed_and_confused wrote: »

Why were HMRC reviewing her pension on her 80th birthday?

It's possibly the old Over 80s Pension which can be paid to any pension recipient who reached pension age prior to 06/04/16, is aged 80 and who receives less than £77.45 per week State Pension.

https://www.gov.uk/over-80-pension


The DWP must have spotted something was not right and made a referral to HMRC to check the MIL's NI contributions records. The HMRC have all NI records, including details of contributions made by spouses or ex-spouses going back to July 1948.

tiggrae

Robbie64 wrote: »

It's possibly the old Over 80s Pension which can be paid to any pension recipient who reached pension age prior to 06/04/16, is aged 80 and who receives less than £77.45 per week State Pension.

https://www.gov.uk/over-80-pension


The DWP must have spotted something was not right and made a referral to HMRC to check the MIL's NI contributions records. The HMRC have all NI records, including details of contributions made by spouses or ex-spouses going back to July 1948.

That’s possible but what gets to you is the fact she’s elderly and an extra £20 week would have made a difference but they won’t repay it all, only the last 12 months worth, that’s the bit I’m asking for help on.

[Deleted User]

Hi,


how did they come to £20 a week it wouldn't be that 20 years ago, and would change each year?



Is it an average of £20 a week?

xylophone

By a mistake on behalf of DWP, they didn’t take into account her spouses contributions on her behalf.

Can you explain further?

Are you saying that your MiL was not paying NI but her spouse was making voluntary contributions on her behalf?

Or are you saying that she was entitled to a pension on her spouse's contributions?

Was her spouse living and over SPA when your MiL reached SPA?

Is he still living?

Robbie64

tiggrae wrote: »

That’s possible but what gets to you is the fact she’s elderly and an extra £20 week would have made a difference but they won’t repay it all, only the last 12 months worth, that’s the bit I’m asking for help on.

I agree with you that only backdating for 12 months what may have been an official error for 20 years does seem wrong.


I would suggest contacting an organisation like the Citizens Advice or the local MP if the Pension Service refuse to backdate more than 12 months. Although State Pension claims cannot be backdated for more than 12 months before the date a claim is received that usually applies to new claims. In cases of official error then the usual approach for most benefits is that there is no time limit. Again, seeking help from the CAB or the local MP might yield a better outcome.


One thing to note: is / was your mother in law in receipt of any means tested benefits (Pension Credit. Housing Benefit or Council Tax Support) as an increased state pension would have led to at least one of those being paid at a lower rate.

Robbie64

xylophone wrote: »

Can you explain further?

Are you saying that your MiL was not paying NI but her spouse was making voluntary contributions on her behalf?

Or are you saying that she was entitled to a pension on her spouse's contributions?

Was her spouse living and over SPA when your MiL reached SPA?

Is he still living?

This is a throwback to how it worked years ago and may not be the case here...


When (typically) a woman is / was married and didn't pay enough NI contributions in any one tax year (agin the typical situation would be because of bringing up a child) then the contributions record of his / her spouse (typically the husband) could be used for that tax year to count towards his / her pension. For someone who had divorced at the point of turning 60/65 then the years that could be looked at are the full tax years from the date of marriage to the date of divorce.


When a claim for a state pension was first made when approaching 60/65 HMRC should have looked at the full NI contributions record including any tax years where the above scenario applied. The alternative (as you mentioned where still married and the spouse was already above state pension age) could have applied and could also have led to a higher pension at age 60.

tiggrae

Robbie64 wrote: »

I agree with you that only backdating for 12 months what may have been an official error for 20 years does seem wrong.


I would suggest contacting an organisation like the Citizens Advice or the local MP if the Pension Service refuse to backdate more than 12 months. Although State Pension claims cannot be backdated for more than 12 months before the date a claim is received that usually applies to new claims. In cases of official error then the usual approach for most benefits is that there is no time limit. Again, seeking help from the CAB or the local MP might yield a better outcome.


One thing to note: is / was your mother in law in receipt of any means tested benefits (Pension Credit. Housing Benefit or Council Tax Support) as an increased state pension would have led to at least one of those being paid at a lower rate.

Hi Robbie, she’s already been to the CAB (this was before I knew anything about it) and they Just couldn’t understand why they had refused to repay the money but I think you’ve provided the answer as they state:

‘Mrs xyz is not entitled to Category BL State Pension from May 2001 to September 2018 because the claim made on 14 September 2019 was not within the time limit for claiming’.

I think you’re absolutely, correct and they’ve applied new claim rules to this decision.

CIS

Robbie64 wrote: »

This is a throwback to how it worked years ago and may not be the case here...


When (typically) a woman is / was married and didn't pay enough NI contributions in any one tax year (agin the typical situation would be because of bringing up a child) then the contributions record of his / her spouse (typically the husband) could be used for that tax year to count towards his / her pension. For someone who had divorced at the point of turning 60/65 then the years that could be looked at are the full tax years from the date of marriage to the date of divorce.


When a claim for a state pension was first made when approaching 60/65 HMRC should have looked at the full NI contributions record including any tax years where the above scenario applied. The alternative (as you mentioned where still married and the spouse was already above state pension age) could have applied and could also have led to a higher pension at age 60.

Brings back long suppressed memories of substitution and topping-up.

xylophone

https://www.ifs.org.uk/bns/bn105.pdf

‘Mrs xyz is not entitled to Category BL State Pension from May 2001 to September 2018 because the claim made on 14 September 2019 was not within the time limit for claiming’.

But presumably she did claim her pension at the correct time and it is solely because of official error that she did not receive (and continued not to receive) the correct amount?

The claim in 2019 was to correct the error the existence of which had only just been conveyed to her by DWP?

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-work-pensions/about/complaints-procedure

She/you might also wish to write to her MP.

Steve Webb might also take an interest.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/columnist-1106441/Steve-Webb-This-Is-Money.html

swanny65

My guess is MIL reached age 60 and claimed a Cat A pension on her own contribution record.

FIL then reaches State Pension age and claims his Cat A pension. Now MIL should have claimed the additional Cat BL top up to her Cat A pension as that point. Clearly she didn't.

If DWP invited MIL to claim the additional pension and she, for whatever reason, ignored the claim form, maybe incorrectly as she was getting a CAT A pension, then the years backdating may be correct.

If the DWP didn't invite MIL to claim then the full arrears should be due.

The only other reason i can think why the BL pension may not have been claimed is if FIL was a higher rate tax payer and they may have received financial advice to not to claim the Cat BL part.

Finally (and it is 30+ years since i processed DWP Pension claims) have the DWP offered MIL increments on the deferred CAT BL pension. Forgive me but i cant recall the rules on Cat BL increments, whether they are still current, if they were award regardless of whether the spouse had claimed their Cat A pension.

I do recall back in the day this (not claiming a Cat BL pension) was a common error by a lot of married women who had a Cat A pension and TBH if the DWP issued the claim form you are unlikely to succeed.

I also would note the earlier comments about arrears entitlement is Income Support, Pension Credit, Housing Benefit etc have been in payment.

Might be helpful to see the full statement of facts from DWP. Does it mention MIL having a Cat A pension, when FIL claimed his pension etc

Good Luck