Going bankrupt with benefit fraud debt

debt_doctor

Hi,

Minky is right to ask the as yet unanswered questions.

The vast majority of benefit over payments are 'simple over payments' and are not fraudulent.

For an o/p to be fraudulent, the following MUST have happened:

You admitted fraud under caution (low level test sometimes not counted as fraud)
or
You have paid an administrative penalty under the 1992 Social Security Administration Act (as an alternative to prosecution)
or
You were found guilty of fraud in a criminal court.

If the above do not apply to you then your over payment is NOT fraudulent and would be included in bankruptcy.

As regards the property of your partner, this is insolvency law we are talking about not family law. In family law (should you divorce if married) then you would have almost certainly acquired beneficial interest in the property - but in insolvency law, the beneficial interest is assumed to go with the legal title and it seems 100% legal title belongs to your partner.
I have NEVER seen an OR/ IP pursue a beneficial interest in a property exclusively owned (Legal title) of the non bankrupt partner.

DD

debt_doctor

Just seen FB's post!

DD

Minkym00

Also to add, even if there is not proven fraud as per the above, the OP could still be subject to a BRO if she did go bankrupt. This is why I asked, if there was no prosecution, why not. If it was decided that it wasn’t in the public interest to pursue a prosecution (i.e. the OP was subject to abuse or coercive control) then BRO proceedings are unlikely.

silvercar

I think some people are unnecessarily harsh. Read OP's first substantive paragraph. She was in an abusive relationship with no support, desperately trying to look after her children. Don't be so judgmental.

gary83

I don't think I was unnecessarily harsh, on a very supportive forum my last post was the most thanked comment, I think that shows I'm not the only person to think that way. I've read the OP's first post again, concentrating on this bit;

Foxton30 wrote: »

Hi,

I’m new here and is desperate need of help.

7 years ago I left my abusive ex husband. Throughout our marriage and relationship I claimed as a single parent. This was due to me having zero financial help from ex and him taking whatever I was getting. I was in an awful position, my mum had just died (I was 19) and I was raising two children practically alone. I’m not trying to excuses but I was in a horrible situation.

Fast forward im now happily married with another child.

I live in his mortgaged house.

I don’t work but have started volunteering. I have been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder.

I currently owe £18k for council and housing benefit. It’s currently with bristow and sutor and I pay £30 a week out of the allowance my husband gives me. They want to put it up in 6 months.

I owe £6k income support/tax credits roughly (been paying that back for years).

I am losing sleep over it. I’m so embarrassed that I feel like I can’t talk to husband about it. Plus I wouldn’t expect him to help me as he works bloody hard and already pays for us to survive.

The OP openly admits she claimed benefits as a single parent despite being in a relationship & married, she knew that was wrong, she admits she was in a terrible situation that with a mother dieing at an early age and an abusive relationship but says in her own words she's "not making excuses." Her background provides some explanation or mitigating factors but it doesn't justify or excuse her actions, 2 wrongs don't make a right,

We're not talking about an overdue library book fine here, She still owes £24,000 in council, housing benefits, income support & tax credits that was taken under false pretences from the rest of us, it's a substantial amount of money. Her husband that she "wouldn’t expect help as he works bloody hard and already pays for us to survive." Is currently unknowingly helping by paying back thirty pounds a week, that's £1560 a year, it's going to take a long time for the government to see our money back, I don't think it's unreasonable for them to look at that amount being increased.

A number of posters have asked if this fraud, that has seemingly been admitted in the first post has been proven, prosecuted or admitted under caution. Being very flippant and purely playing devil's advocate nobody has asked if the abusive relationship has hit the same standards of proof.

Anxietyoverload

@gary83 do you say poor creditors when people on here owe people thousands of pounds and judge those people?

Debt is a horrible situation to be in regardless of how we get there. Whose business is it to question whether the OP was in an abusive relationship? At the end of the day the details are irrelevant to this forum except to feel compassion for the individual circumstance. The questions on this forum are relating to advice about a particular debt and how it was acquired. Like you said this is meant to be a safe space.

OP - I’m by no means a debt expert so can’t offer any advice but looks like there are some great people on here who can offer you support in regards to your finances. Good luck to you

Here_Comes_The_Judge

Willing2Learn wrote: »

How dare you come on to the bankruptcy forum, suggesting that the OPs history of being in an abusive relationship is in doubt? What right do you have to even throw that idea out there? You should feel ashamed...Your thoughts consitute the worst post I have seen this year (so far)

!!!!!!? She claimed benefits as a single person when she wasn't.

RattyIrk

Seems a shame some people have chosen to dig out the original poster for her actions.

We are all on here because we have failed in our obligations to creditors, a situation none of us wanted to be in. I am sure most of us ducked and dived, paid some creditors rather than others to try and get through but ultimately failed.

Taken on face value all the OP did was do what she could to try and survive and get through herself. Yes her actions may have been fraud but the underlying reasons for her actions are the same. Easy to judge but I didn't think that was what the forum was about.

gary83

I’m struggling to find official guidance anywhere, if you are in an abusive relationship what level of benefit fraud is acceptable? Obviously more than £24,000 but less than what £50,000? £100,000? where’s the line drawn at what level of benefit fraud is ok?

Out of interest would it have been ok if she’d robbed the money from a bank?

What about if she’d stolen that money from charity boxes? Would it be acceptable to feel sorry for the creditors if it was a charity?

Willing2Learn

@gary83 - I have deleted my post as I don't want to hijack this thread. It would be unfair to the OP.


@OP - You need to consider the advice offered by Minky, fatbelly and Debt Doctor as it is relevant to your situation and could help you.