RESOLVED - Delay Repay - Northern - refused

NewShadow

I had a short break with the folks over Christmas and had a significant delay returning on the Xth. I asked for compensation in the form of tickets for future journeys.

The delay was so long that I actually missed the last train of my last connection so had to walk the 2 miles home - the station couldn't order a taxi on account and I didn't have cash on me.

Northern have refused my claim on the grounds given below.

I now need to phone their customer services - Any advice on what I should focus on during the conversation?

Plus - is there an alternative contact, I'd rather keep it all in writing if possible?

Details of journey provided with claim

Scheduled Journey - redacted to redacted - Advanced Single.

Departing 16:53 from redacted to Manchester Piccadilly arriving 18:19 (Northern).

Departing from Manchester Piccadilly 18:30 to redacted arriving 22:06 (Arriva).

Departing from redacted 22:26 to redacted arriving 22:32 (Arriva).

I live a couple of minutes from the redacted station so would have been home 22:35ish.

Actual Journey - redacted to redacted and remainder of journey on foot.

Departed 17:18 (25L) from redacted to Manchester Piccadilly arriving 18:47.

Departed from Manchester Piccadilly 19:31 to redacted arriving 22:53.

Departed (on replacement bus service) 23:10 (approx) from redacted to redacted arriving 23:50 (approx)

The last train from redacted to redacted had departed at 23:26. Station staff advised they were not able to book a taxi on account and so I was unable to complete my journey via the network - the next available train would have been 06:11 on the following day.

I therefore departed 00:15 from redacted to redacted (on foot) arriving 00:45 (approx)

Total journey delay 2 hours, 13 minutes (approx)

Even if they dispute the 'on foot' part of the claim, my journey as far as redacted was 1 hour, 44 minutes and therefore due compensation.

Response received

Dear Miss NewShadow,

Thank you for your correspondence in respect to the Northern service on X December 2019 with our reference ***.

I am sorry to learn that your journey between redacted and Manchester Piccadilly was disrupted, and that you were caused a delay as a result.

Please be assured that we are committed to operating a punctual train service on all of our routes, continually reviewing and monitoring the cause of all delays to our trains, to ensure that appropriate measures are put in place to reduce their recurrence wherever this is possible.

We’ve rejected your claim because you haven’t used your ticket to travel or did not complete your full journey by train. Our delay repay process only applies if you complete your full journey by train and are delayed by 15 minutes or more.

If you used the ticket to travel on part of your journey but were unable to complete it by train please contact our customer experience centre on 0800 200 60 60.

If you didn’t travel at all, this means you’re entitled to a full refund
from the original retailer.

[Irrelevant detail about claiming a ticket refund]

Kind regards,

Northern

Journey Date:
X December 2019

Your planned route (scheduled times):
Departing 1653 from redacted to Manchester Piccadilly arriving 1815.

daveyjp

"If you used the ticket to travel on part of your journey but were unable to complete it by train please contact our customer experience centre on 0800 200 60 60."

Seems that is what you need to do.

Station staff were also wrong. They have to get you to your final destination station. A complaint is also due in that direction for their failure to do so.

It does show the madness of of the situation. I had a Virgin east coast train delay, missing my last connection in Leeds. Delay repay refund from Virgin and taxi home, no questions asked.

NewShadow

daveyjp wrote: »

"If you used the ticket to travel on part of your journey but were unable to complete it by train please contact our customer experience centre on 0800 200 60 60."

Seems that is what you need to do.

Station staff were also wrong. They have to get you to your final destination station. A complaint is also due in that direction for their failure to do so.

It does show the madness of of the situation. I had a Virgin east coast train delay, missing my last connection in Leeds. Delay repay refund from Virgin and taxi home, no questions asked.

Hi Davey

Thanks for taking the time to respond and for the information that they should have called a taxi/gotten me home - as my mum says, 'shoulds make no musts' - they didn't and now I need to explain this to someone in a call centre clearly so they can approve my claim with as little further bother as possible.

I was hoping some kind soul on the forum would help me with:

- some advise on what to focus on while calling the Northern customer services; and,
- if there's an alternative contact I can use given I'd prefer to keep things in writing.

Any chance you can assist?

daveyjp

As they failed their side of the contract to get you from A to B you require a refund of the amount paid for this leg of the trip.

Read this and quote relevant paragraphs back at them.

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/National%20Rail%20Conditions%20of%20Travel.pdf

NewShadow

I've anonymised the OP for personal privacy and am posting an update for anyone who searches at a later date.

I read the Conditions of Travel as linked to kindly by daveyjp.

Then I phoned Northern Customer Services - I called at around 11am; it took a good 10 minutes to connect to an advisor and the whole call took in the region of 20 minutes.

The advisor wanted to know if I'd submitted the claim online - I had - I gave him the reference from the rejection email.

He then said I'd claimed for a 2 hour delay and the train had only been delayed for 35 minutes - I pointed out that was the first train and that it had caused me to miss my connection.

He asked where my final destination was - then said that's not a Northern area and did I have individual tickets for each leg - I said yes, but I'd bought them together/in one transaction as part of one journey and that I'd been told Northern were responsible for the overall delay to my journey.

He then read the notes and noted that I'd not completed my journey by train - I said that was because I'd missed the last train due to the first delay.

He then said I needed to contact the retailer - trainline - I lied slightly and said I'd contacted them first and they directed me to the Conditions of Travel and said I had to contact Northern.

He then put me on hold to talk to a manager - when he came back he said it was fine to approve. He said he would submit the claim and it would go into a queue for a manager to sign off and I'd get an email confirmation in about a week or two.

I'd asked for free tickets - as I travel a lot - and he said they'd post me the two return tickets. He explained they'd have my name on so I couldn't sell them and that I could only use them within the Northern network.

Hope that's helpful for someone

yorkie2

NewShadow wrote: »

He then said I needed to contact the retailer - trainline - I lied slightly and said I'd contacted them first and they directed me to the Conditions of Travel and said I had to contact Northern.

typical northern; good for you, as that is what trainline would have said.


they're often caught trying to get out of their obligations


I have caught them misleading people on Twitter; when I corrected them, they blocked me, in the hope that I would be unable to help further people. But they were wrong as blocking doesn't actually achieve that.


We see a lot of complaints about mistreatment of passengers by Northern in the fares section of Railforums.co.uk


They will try to weasel out of their liabilities by sending people to other train companies or the retailer.


I am glad to hear you were managed to stand up to them. Many people would have given up!

NewShadow

yorkie2 wrote: »

they're often caught trying to get out of their obligations

He was a friendly bloke but did seem to be running through a list of things that might get me off the phone rather than trying to figure out the situation.

I am a little worried - given the recent announcements re losing the franchise - if the 'free' tickets will be honoured by whomever takes over...

yorkie2

NewShadow wrote: »

He was a friendly bloke but did seem to be running through a list of things that might get me off the phone rather than trying to figure out the situation.

I am a little worried - given the recent announcements re losing the franchise - if the 'free' tickets will be honoured by whomever takes over...

They will be honoured.