Private pensions popular in UK but not in France, Germany, Spain

nigelbb

nigelbb wrote: »

It’s far better to have universal state provision of a decent pension rather than leaving it to the whim of private employers. Auto enrolment is a start but the contribution level is far too low. The social charges deducted from my French salary were much higher than in the UK but I’m very grateful to now have the pension. Ultimately you get what you pay for.

As has been pointed out pensions in France are a mix of state & private but the latter are compulsory & industry wide so each employer doesn't have their own pension scheme. I should therefor have said that it's far better to have universal compulsory provision of a decent pension rather than leaving it to the whim of private employers.

atush

Ganga wrote: »

Does France and the rest of Europe have a NHS system like the UK? also do they have a benifit system for people to fall back on.

in france there are some copayments

nigelbb

atush wrote: »

in france there are some copayments

70% covered in general but certain conditions it's 100%. Most people have mutuelle insurance that pays the difference generally paid for by the employer. If your income is below a certain level then there is a state mutuelle.

[Deleted User]

Marine_life wrote: »

Its because state pensions are much more generous (and therefore less requirement for private pensions).

UK has by far the worst state pensions of any OECD country.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/02/retirees-in-these-countries-receive-100-of-a-working-salary/

I don’t know how they counted. What I do know is that if you look at state pensions alone, Canada’s maximum CPP is lower than maximum state pension in the UK, which is in turn less than in the US.

Comparisons are complicated as each country has additional benefits and there are variations between states in the US. Also, Canada’s CPP starts at 65 and is fully funded through investment, is sustainable and fully funded rather than semi-bankrupt and funded on an ongoing basis by the taxpayer.

michaels

nigelbb wrote: »

70% covered in general but certain conditions it's 100%. Most people have mutuelle insurance that pays the difference generally paid for by the employer. If your income is below a certain level then there is a state mutuelle.

But provision as opposed to payment is often private.

Is the monolithic NHS really the best way to provide publicly funded healthcare? I care much more about the quality of treatment and the wait times than whether the Doctor, nurse, cleaner etc are paid for by the govt or a private company. Don't forget that GPs in the UK are all private sector employees paid for by public funding.

Terron

nigelbb wrote: »

On your figures the basic state pension in France is well over double that of the UK (€1609 vs £730).

No. I said the basic state pension in France is capped at that number. The maximum in the UK for those with SERPS is higher than £730 (I think it is close to £1200). I believe the minimum for those with a full record of contributions is higher in the UK.

Both the UK and France require 10 years of being in the system to get any pension, but France requires 40-43 years for the maximum rather than the 30 or 35 in the UK. The French system depends on both how long you have paid and how much you paid. The UK system now only depnds on how long you have in the system.

The new UK state pension is better for low paid workers than the French one despite being cheaper. Though as I said both countries have other systems which bring minimum payements up to roughly the same amount.



France's compulsary schemes such as AGIRC& ARRCO are PAYG schemes and have different rules so are not totally universal. I understand that they have financial problems which is why they are looking at adjusting benefits, increasing contributions and merging the administration to save costs. But people are objecting.


The systems are very different. Both provide a safety net. Both allow for more with differeing degrees of compulsion/ flexibility. It is not easy to say that one is better than the other. My feeling is that I prefer the greater freedom in the UK's system, but I only have a superficial knowledge of the French one. I also think the UK's system was not as good in the past (when I was paying in). I don't know about the past of the French system but get the impression that it hasn't changed much for a long time.

bhjm

Ganga wrote: »

Does France and the rest of Europe have a NHS system like the UK? also do they have a benifit system for people to fall back on.

Germany has indeed.

bhjm

Terron wrote: »

That is misleading due to the differences in the systems.
If you consider only state pension the UK is lower but if you consider benefits as well as pensions, Framce and Germany provide around £150 a week minimum, the UK £155, and Spain £80. Germany's pensions are income related with no maximum so the state pension is higher for the rich. The UK provides a similar level of support for poor pensioners but lets the rich manage their own.
https://fullfact.org/europe/pensioners-eu-uk/

so the rich are better off in any country. is this what you are trying to establish?

Malthusian

nigelbb wrote: »

70% covered in general but certain conditions it's 100%. Most people have mutuelle insurance that pays the difference generally paid for by the employer. If your income is below a certain level then there is a state mutuelle.

When did the French sell out their healthcare to Donald Trump to create this horrifying dystopia where the middle classes have to pay for healthcare insurance?

bhjm

newbinvestor wrote: »

I thought that private pensions were popular all across Europe but read something on the OECD website and I was completely wrong. It seems in Germany, France Spain and Italy, they have very little in private pensions.

Why would this be the case?

as far I can speak for Germany, the income is taxed higher compared to UK.Higher for Income Tax, health insurance as well as the pension deductions / contributions.