7.3 kW Bi Facial Rooftop Panels: ~7 year ROI: Fact OR fiction?

Screwdriva

If I did add a battery, it would be a small Givenergy 5kWh battery so that I could benefit from Intelligent Flux. Better after sales support too! 

Solarchaser

Screwdriva said:

Solarchaser said:

You have over 7kw of solar, and so changing to a 5kw inverter does make sense imo, and could make a difference to the calculations as you would then be able to export 15kwh instead of just over 10 in that 3 hour 

Solarchaser said:

At £400 difference a £7k power wall just can't make sense. 
A £1500 seplos could though, and there are several forum users using them now, for around a 4 year payback

I wondered when that suggestion was going to make an appearance!

Well of course, it's about roi right?
I mean, if it wasn't, you wouldn't be singing the joys of octopus flux.
So going for an overpriced battery makes no roi sense.

Screwdriva

Solarchaser said:

Well of course, it's about roi right?
I mean, if it wasn't, you wouldn't be singing the joys of octopus flux.
So going for an overpriced battery makes no roi sense.

While I agree that a Tesla PW3 doesn't make financial sense for my use case, even the best return couldn't convince me to install in a Lithium battery in my home, unless it was from a manufacturer reputed to take safety seriously. 

Solarchaser

Screwdriva said:

Solarchaser said:

Well of course, it's about roi right?
I mean, if it wasn't, you wouldn't be singing the joys of octopus flux.
So going for an overpriced battery makes no roi sense.

While I agree that a Tesla PW3 doesn't make financial sense for my use case, even the best return couldn't convince me to install in a Lithium battery in my home, unless it was from a manufacturer reputed to take safety seriously. 

And you belive Tesla does, while a.n. other doesn't.

And you are of course entitled to your beliefs, just as I'm entitled to mine. 
I have actual experience of both driving a Tesla for over 3 years, and dealing with their service team.

I'm highly unlikely to get another Tesla when due for renewal in some months time, partly due to the amount of times the car has tried to kill me.
Partly due to their service teams unwillingness, or inability to resolve an issue that has plagued me (and a few of my colleagues) for over a year. 

Really the big bonus of a Tesla is the superchargers, and it's very common for it to lie about the availability of them.

You put faith in news articles etc, as many people do.
My actual experience guides me where to put my faith, which is why I'd never buy some of the makes you believe are quality brands.

We all pay our money, and take our chances.

Screwdriva

Solarchaser said:

My actual experience guides me where to put my faith, which is why I'd never buy some of the makes you believe are quality brands.

We all pay our money, and take our chances.

I really can't comment on your use of your vehicle and I'm not sure what self driving has to do with a home battery experience but my experience with Tesla batteries goes a bit further than new articles. It is the number one requested battery inverter for the larger home installations (upto 12kW) these days as it saves the user the need to purchase a 3rd party inverter, often saving substantial £. 

5 favourable observations, outside of the more obvious class leading performance specifications:

1) Tech support is good. Commissioning is vastly superior with PW3 compared to say an AIO.

2) Apps are class leading
3) Gateways 1 and 2 are widely copied (poorly) as they remain class leading

4) Tesla Gateways have always had a N-E Bond relay, which other brands are still playing catchup on safety.

5) Powerwalls installed outside a property do not need covers or suffer anywhere near the performance degradation as their competitors. You certainly don't need an oddly fitted rain/snow cover over the battery for protection.

All that said, I agree that it's your money, so enjoy however you decide spend it (safely, I hope) 

Solarchaser

What's it to do with self driving?
Nothing at all, I don't use it, and certainly never mentioned it.
However you assumed that's what I meant because you don't have the actual physical experience, and some articles somewhere suggest something perhaps?

The Tesla batteries don't degrade? Oh but I beg to differ. 
My car has lost 10% of its new kwh, with now only 63kwh available vs 70kwh available new.

Tesla has great pr usually, and a vast network of eager defenders to parrot that pr, however once again I'll say ill go with my own experience over something I've read.

Your last sentence I appreciate, but it also highlights an inherent bias.
You assume my choices are less safe as they are less expensive, id offer mine are more balanced as my own professional experience is more relevant.

Doesn't make either of us right or wrong.

I used to very regularly deal with PCB's made by Sharp, and I can very confidently tell you that the seplos BMS PCB is made to a much higher quality,  because I had a good look over it in my hands before deciding to use it.

Does that mean it won't fail, or there no chance of fire, no, in the same way a company reputation doesn't stop component failure.

Edit, I'm interested in the vastly superior commissioning you talk about, from a needy point of view, what's superior. 

For context I am commissioning a £1m system myself this week

Screwdriva

If you're commissioning an AIO (or several) based system, which is the battery I compared the PW3 to above, I recommend using a hardwired internet connection. Wifi will lead to multiple spontaneous failures. I also recommend commissioning during China working hours as the UK GivEnergy tech support team's grasp/ decisionmaking autonomy is limited. On rare occasions, a dead/faulty battery will make an appearance and should that happen, Tesla has a no questions asked component swap policy with no arduous troubleshooting. No such luck with most of the other brand I'm aware of. Those are just a few at the top of my growing list. 

I never claimed a Tesla battery does not degrade (or any battery for that matter) but I do maintain that whatever your vehicle issue is, I don't see what that has to do with their home storage solutions? Could it be that your negative experience has biased you against the brand's offerings? Sounds like that may be the case to me. 

Regardless, best of luck with your installation! For anyone else following this thread, I'll un-hijack it back to a bifacial panel focus now.

Solarchaser

You don't see what relevance 10% Tesla battery degradation has on a Tesla battery system?
You stated Tesla degradation was less than other in your 5th point...

So to clarify about the commissioning process, it's not that it's much better, it's their no quibble swap policy?
That's fair and it's certainly worth some piece of mind. As I said, I was interested from a nerdy point of view.

As for me, I've had batteries for 6 years, and about a year ago, upgraded to seplos, at about 4 times the capacity of the pw3 for the around the same price
All is grand, thanks for your wishes 👍

Screwdriva

Solarchaser said:

You don't see what relevance 10% Tesla battery degradation has on a Tesla battery system?
You stated Tesla degradation was less than other in your 5th point...

So to clarify about the commissioning process, it's not that it's much better, it's their no quibble swap policy?
That's fair and it's certainly worth some piece of mind. As I said, I was interested from a nerdy point of view.

As for me, I've had batteries for 6 years, and about a year ago, upgraded to seplos, at about 4 times the capacity of the pw3 for the around the same price
All is grand, thanks for your wishes 👍

Sorry, 5th point was specifically for poor weather performance degradation. Not battery capacity degradation. 

Screwdriva

First time I've seen bifacial panels installed over water! 

https://www.ecoticias.com/en/switzerland-covers-alps-solar-panels/6184/