Fish & "good practice"

kethry

Appealing to all fish lovers out there.. my OH loves fish & seafood and i've always been scared of it - both cooking and eating it, i hate bones in my mouth and so on. However, because he loves it i'm determined to try - not just eating them myself but cooking fish more frequently.. I'm aware its also very good for you (depending of course, on how its cooked.. lol).

Anyway. To this end, i got the following today from the fish market at the Arndale Centre in Manchester:

• 2 herring fish, deheaded and butterflied with the tail left on. I specifically asked the fishmonger to prepare the herrings this way as OH likes to eat the fillets raw (He's dutch and they do this with the first catch of the season, something of a delicacy there). I did ask when the fish was caught and was told saturday. I also asked if they'd been frozen and he said no.
• 2 Sardine fish, done the same way. With the sardines i asked the man how best to cook them, and he said he'd only ever had them BBQ'd, but told me they'd be good done on a grill ridged pan.
• And a bag of mussels, in their shells.

I think i paid around £5 for all this.

Tonight i came to cook them. First of all i found out that they hadn't been scaled. I had to scale them - a disgusting, horrible job. nearly put me off there and then - if i'd been cooking for myself i swear i would have chucked it (not OS i know) and gone to the chippy, but it was for OH, so i persevered and got them descaled. I could feel that there were some bones in the fillets but the guy warned me he would never be able to get them all out so i just carried on. I put some watercress leaves and slivers of garlic in the middle of each fish, oiled and seasoned them. Got the grill good and hot, then cooked them for a couple minutes each side, and served with a watercress, orange and cucumber relish salad and some chunks of home made bread.

The fish itself was gorgeous, i have to say, and OH was complimentary about the way i'd cooked them. However, the herring was absolutely chock full of bones, to the point where OH had to give up, it was just inedible and offputting, then amount of bones he was pulling out of his mouth.

Then i went to cook the mussels. These i cleaned, debearded, then melted some butter, chucked in some garlic, chopped spring onions, slivers of chilli, added the mussels then about a pint of half water half white wine. Brought to the boil, then, lid on, cooked them for 4 minutes. They were cooked but also very gritty. I gave up after about 3 or so, but OH ate the lot.

so. my questions:
1) should descaling happen automatically?
2) should the filleting be better or am i just useless and should've asked for it to happen?(OH reckons english fishmongers are.. well.. carp. pun intended. (yeah i'll get me coat..) this is the second time i've tried to buy him herring in the UK - the last time from Asda, and that one was full of bones too.)
3) should the mussels be free of grit?
4) did i overpay for this, is he a "bad" fish monger, and can anyone recommend a better fishmonger in Manchester/Ashton under Lyne (or the corridor inbetween)?
5) anything else anyone can recommend, what to look for etc. etc.


Any tips would be appreciated. Many thanks in advance.

keth
xx

angie_loves_veg

Hi Kethry

Sorry your fishy experience was not so good.... your questions...

1. I believe that descaling *should* happen automatically, but in my experience it rarely, if ever, does. There are a few (very few) occasions when you want the scales left on because of very high temperature, direct flame cooking. I always ask specifically if I would like fish scaled because whilst I am quite capable of the job it makes an almighty mess at my sink..

2. I have never had herring in the UK as gorgeous as you get it in Holland. Full stop. Yes the filleting could have been better, but this is why I ended up teaching myself how to do it. Takes ages (but I am getting quicker) but so much better than asking the fishmonger (who is often actually a butcher if you are in a supermarket)

3. er... yes. Some grit is inevitable, lots is not. If a mussel seems heavy when you clean it, it is likely to be full of grit. You can try to get the grit to go into the cooking liquor (by using more liquid), then strain the liquor, but it's a long way from ideal.

4. The price you paid for the quantity you got was fair, just the quality should have been so much better. It is a disappointment when you feel you shop from a specialist only to find out that what they offer isn't that special. Can't help with the recommendation unless you move to essex/suffolk!

5. The only advice I can offer is to talk to the fish-man, and ask for his advice, they should know what is at it's 'best' and if they value your repeated business, than they should offer you some real advice..... 'my hubby loves fish, I'm not so sure of bones (etc) what would you recommend this week for me to try?'

Oh, and as for the sardines, butterfly them (or even leave them whole, heads n all) and put under a hot grill until they blister .. turn.. repeat. The bones (should) just fall out once they are cooked... far far easier than when raw

kethry

angie_loves_veg wrote: »

2. I have never had herring in the UK as gorgeous as you get it in Holland. Full stop. Yes the filleting could have been better, but this is why I ended up teaching myself how to do it. Takes ages (but I am getting quicker) but so much better than asking the fishmonger (who is often actually a butcher if you are in a supermarket)

Angie -

Many thanks for all these answers!!!


What is clear that a) that fishmonger wasn't terribly good. I could understand if he worked in a supermarket, as you said, many of them are often butchers as well. However this was a dedicated, permanent fish stall (two of them, different businesses but in the same area, back to back) within the indoor market in Manchester city center. You'd think they'd want my repeat business, but obviously not. I have, however, learned my lesson about scaling, and *will* be asking them to do this from now on!

I asked my OH about the herring in the Netherlands. We think its down to the processing: they process (i.e. gut, fillet etc.) the fish on the boat and then freeze it. That may make a difference. I screwed up my courage twice when i was there the first time for OH's sister's wedding - first time at the reception, pieces of beautiful herring on rye bread (and made OH's uncle collapse in fits of laughter at the look on my face when i ate it - but went back for another piece, once i got past the cold wet texture!), and again a couple days later, when my FIL got some herring, and taught me to eat it how the dutch eat it - dipped in chopped onion, held by the tail, and eat from the neck up, with gin!! That whole trip was adventurous, for me, with fish - got to have raw salmon ("cooked" in vinegar), as a starter at the wedding breakfast.. it was absolutely exquisite, just melted in the mouth with this beautiful flavour. never had anything like it since. And my MIL cooked me salmon fillets which i loved. All that is what made me determined to try to eat more fish. My own family don't really do fish, not unless its white, battered and fried. LOL.

regarding the sardines - I may well do this, if i can find a better supplier. I loved the flavour of the herring, but as soon as i saw the bones i ended up sliding mine onto OH's plate (in fact, i ended up throwing some birds eye chicken in the oven and popping out to the chippy for some chips, i ate that little of it all!). I did like cooking them on the grill though, and OH loved the flavour of it, so its definetly the right way to go, flavourwise. It may also be that i need to experiment with different kinds of fish. At least i know now to have 'em descaled - thankyou!

keth
xx

floss2

Your mussels were probably wild, rather than rope farmed, if they were gritty....rope farmed are the ethically "best" and tend to be gathered by hand rather than dredged.

Nigella has a recipe for finely sliced raw salmon marinated in rice vinegar - its absolutely gorgeous!

Do you have a Booths / Waitrose / Morrisons anywhere locally? I've found their fish counters to be excellent, and they keep winning awards too.

thriftmonster

If the herring was butterflied, had the fishmonger taken the back bone out or not? If not, open the fish out, skin side up and flatten it like a book. Turn it over and the backbone should pull out fairly easily with most of the bones.

HTH

kethry

Floss: thankyou. I do have a Morrisons sort of nearby.. awkward to get to on the bus but they're building another one much closer in the next year or so so its worth checking. I'll also look for the rope farmed kind of mussels next time, rather than dredged.

ThriftMonster: i did tell the fishmonger my OH wanted to eat it raw, so asked him to remove as many bones as he could. this is part of why i was so annoyed, because he could not have eaten it raw (I know its possible to remove a lot of the bones because the Dutch do it routinely) and even cooked, it was a nightmare, so many bones left in it.

I'm thinking that if Morrisons doesn't check out then the best thing to do would be to take a leaf out of angie loves veg's book and learn how to fillet/debone them myself, and do a proper job of it!

Thanks!

keth
xx

spaghetti_monster

Just thought I'd say hi and wish you luck as I'm also trying to be more adventurous with fish........:rotfl:

we've chatted before (about food in Holland, I'm living there now) and I also had a bit of a shock at my first sight of a friend standing in the middle of the street shoveling down a whole raw herring covered in chopped onions. But I wasn't as brave as you to try one myself!

Tonight I'm cooking a pangasius filet, which according to google is a catfish but probably not one of those giant ones!

Good luck!

liz545

Hi Keth - if you liked the salmon 'cooked' in vinegar, you might want to try ceviche, which is a style of cooking where you marinate the fish in citrus to 'cook' it. I've had it in the past with salmon and red snapper, but I think you could use any firm textured fish or scallops. It's nice as a light meal with salad: http://www.recipezaar.com/74626

JoeyEmma

Just had a quick glance through the OP, but had to say the fish in the Arndale Market is awful. The fishmongers are really bad at filletting fish, the quality is poor and their knowledge is shocking. They are unable to tell you if something is fresh or frozen or other basic things. I have bought fish, got it home and been unwilling to eat it from there as I have been unsure about the quality and safety of it.

Try Out of the Blue in Chorlton. Its more expensive but its a really good fish shop where they are skilled craftsmen who are passionate about fish.