Experts on court forms please help me!

mudskippa

Hi, I'm a claimant trying to enforce judgement against a rogue letting agent who stole my deposit.

I want to make the debtor attend court for questioning on the unpaid CCJ and am looking to complete N316, but have some questions especially regarding personal service of N39.

I assume on the N316, I must put the debtor's name and address as listed on the CCJ. However, I am not sure this will be successful in actually serving this to the debtor personally, because:

1. The address was the last "known address" of the debtor. It is his family's address, but I think they have kicked him out. It is the only address I have for him. But if it has to be served in person, how would that work? He doesn't have a work address or any other addresses I can trace.

2. The name on the CCJ is his "anglicised name", which was written on the contract under dispute. However, I have since discovered that his legal name is different. There is evidence all over the internet that he is the same person. But surely he could just produce his passport if anyone tried to serve him with the paperwork with the anglicised name and say it's not him?

Assuming the other two questions can be answered, how can I serve the order practically? I'm off sick and have mobility issues. I honestly don't need the stress of meeting him either. How much does it cost to get someone else to do it?

Thanks if any experts can help with this.

D_M_E

Why are you going after the agent for your deposit?

Surely you must go after the landlord or landlady since protecting and returning the deposit is their responsibility, not the agents?

Having said that, if you are intent on pursuing the agent, then probably filling in the form with something such as

XXX also known as YYY would possibly suffice, but I don't know for sure if this would be acceptable.

You need to check to be safe.

sourcrates

Normally you would upgrade this to the high court, (cost approx £60) and then engage a HCEO to trace and chase this fellow down, they would do all the legwork, and attempt enforcement.

That would be your best bet at getting your money back.

mudskippa

Thank you. I know the final responsibility rests with the landlord. It's a bit complex, but basically I still live here so I'm trying to pursue the agent myself as I don't want to risk bad relations with the landlord as I don't want to move.

Anyway, I tried filling in multiple names and addresses on the original claim, but the court sent it back asking for me to put only one name and address on it for it to be posted to. So I just went with the details on the actual contract. (I put the other names in the case details.)

But now it's coming to personal service, and not just posting it via mail, I assume I must put the legal name and an address he can physically be served at. There is no space for additional details on the N316 form. I just have to put the name and address, but I don't know if there will be a problem if they don't match the CCJ claim number.

Thank you for your help. It's appreciated. I cannot seem to find any information about this anywhere!

mudskippa

Thank you Sourcrates. I don't know if this guy actually has any money yet or I would go straight to HCEOs.

WhenIam64

So you want him to turn up in court for questioning about his means. Do you actually know where he is / can be contacted? Do you know if he has any money?

Your best bet is to contact the company that will be used to serve the N316 / N39. They should be able to give you advice on whether it is worth your time.

mudskippa

Hi WhenIam, Thanks for replying.

Yes I want him to turn up in court for questioning and get arrested if that's what it takes for him to do so.

I am not sure about his means, which is why I want him questioned, because he's not answering my questions and didn't even come to court to defend the actual claim. He said he'd been kicked out of his family's house and wasn't there to receive it. I told him the claim was arriving and also the case number and court to contact for time and date, so he made no effort.

I don't know if he is actually at his old address, but his family is registered there on the electoral roll. He does have contact with the address as he still sees his kids and sister and he still lives in the same area if not at that address.

I have his mobile number (although he has changed it multiple times). He said he'd sort out a payment plan back in April, claiming he had a job and was on training. Yesterday I texted to chase up, and he reckons he was attacked at work and off sick. He just keeps texting me excuses which are clearly fictional. He is not cooperating at all.

I'm not currently working with a company. I'm kind of in a catch22, as I need to work out where he is and if he can pay something or it won't be worth me paying a company and being out of pocket for that as well. But he owes me £9k, so I'm not letting it go, even if it has to be in tiny installments.

Yeah it would be a lot easier if I didn't have to play detective myself here. At the moment, the most cost effective thing is to apply for an N39 (I can get help with fees in county court) and try to serve it myself. I might be able to get him to meet up with me (to give me his sob stories), as he has offered to meet once before. Or I could wait outside his "old" house.

uk_american

Look at this document for fees, page 13. You'll pay £55 for the N39 and £110 if you want bailiffs to serve it for you. That's quite a bit of money if you're unsure of the address.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/789201/ex50-eng.pdf

Be warned, even though the debtor will be under oath, the rogue types will adjust their finances in the minimum two week lead time before the court appointment. So if he has a family member he could move money to them and if questioned could lie that it was the repayment of a loan etc.

An additional option: an N336. IF the debtor already has an attachment of earnings order (so if he is currently working and someone has already gone through the steps to get a set amount from his wages) an N336 will reveal it. You can then ask the court to join up your CCJ to that attachment order at no cost to you.

Granted, it will most likely be a paltry amount from each pay cheque and if the debtor changes employers then it's back to 0 again but at least it's something.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/718846/ex323-eng.pdf

Otherwise trace and HCEOs, but I imagine it's a little uphill going if you have different versions of his name and an uncertain address.

mudskippa

Thanks for the links, American. I get help with Court Fees so I won't have to pay all of them. But if I went with a private firm, I'd have to pay.

I was wondering whether people like this actually lie under oath. But I do have additional questions I can ask him based on my own research and what he's told me and I'll be needing documentary evidence to back it up. I still have two lots of his bank details as well. And I know the names of about 5 of his family members so we would know if he'd handed money to them.

He has always been self-employed so I think he was lying when he said he'd got a job, so I can't do Attachment of Earnings.

I'm hoping that if he has to go to court, he may at least set up minimum payments.

Is there anyone I can call about what to actually put on this form?

WhenIam64

I was wondering whether people like this actually lie under oath

Yup. Judges are very sharp at picking it up as they deal with it every day. They deal with it by "weighting" the evidence / statements.

As American says, as the law is basically the same US/USA, you have to make a decision about what you want to do. You may get something but not everything. If you intend to "teach them a lesson", it will be the follow-on victims that will benefit and not necessarily you.

He said he'd been kicked out of his family's house and wasn't there to receive it.

I told him the claim was arriving and also the case number and court to contact for time and date, so he made no effort.

He could try for a set-aside and defend or delay but not likely unless he could produce an explanation.

What I can't understand is the easy ride your landlord is getting as they hired him to collect a deposit. In fact, they were liable for up to 3 times the deposit as damages as the deposit wasn't protected. But you've made your decision and decided who you thought was liable

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-privately/during-your-tenancy/check-your-landlord-has-protected-your-deposit/

mudskippa

Thank you.

I can collect evidence about the obvious lies he's told (on text) about why he's not been able to pay me back. The judge at the claim hearing was very nice, put me at ease, and seemed pretty sharp, so hopefully I'll get another one like that.

I am hoping I get some monthly payment, even if it's not much, just so he knows he can't screw people about and have no consequences (which is clearly what he thinks). And yes I do want to stop him doing this to others.

If I end up in financial hardship over this, I will have to change tack and pursue the landlord. Currently, I still live here, and I'd like to stay as long as possible. I'm just making it easier for him to not divide the place into bedsits, which he's wanted to do for a while to get more money. If he does that, and I have to move out, then that's another matter.