Help please, longwinded sorry

capper_2

Wondering if anyone can give me some advice on the way forward.
I'm a mum of two children, both special needs and my ex has fiddled the system so much, there is no point trying to claim the maintenance. My new husband has adopted my youngest (legal reasons due to nature of disability prevents him from adopting the eldest). I finally was awarded maintenance at £2 pw which he never paid and it cost me more in phone calls to the CSA than I would ever get back from the arrears.

Anyhow thats just a brief history to show that I also understand the situation from a PWC's perspective.

Daughter situation to help you understand - She is chronically special needs and I won an 7 year legal battle to get her into a residential school 52/7. Unfortunately this means I can't claim Child benefit or DLA but can claim Child tax credit. She visits home and I have to provide suitable accommodation and access and have to pay for any personal items, ie clothing which she goes through like nobody's business. If I refuse to pay for personal items and spending money Social Services will place a care order on her.

My problem is with the CSA and my new husbands children.

As brief as possible, he gave her the house free and clear of a mortgage (which she has re-mortgaged with her new husband) and is now selling for £155k and agreed to an extra £30 pw to supplement her income. This was in 2001.

In 2003 she decided to take him to the CSA, in 2004 we were advised by the CSA to stop paying maintenance as any arrears we paid would not be paid back and a provisional decision was £20 pw. We had to move to a larger home that had wheel chair accessability and down stairs accommodation for my child, as well as room for his children to visit.

In 2005 (and yes I chased them up) they decided they wanted £80 pw. I rang them as the wage they were quoting was wrong and they agreed to go by the P60's, they were also taking 50% of his income on the first part of the assessment, dropping to 30% taking the disability benefits into consideration.
They also refused to take my daughter into consideration as I dont get child benefit for her as she is in a residential home (care with us and we have to pay for personal upkeep approx £4k last year).

The lady was very considerate and said the assessment was wrong and she would review it and look into it all. In the meantime the CSA had a move around and the file has now gone elsewhere.

In the meantime of the 2 children he has, one came to live with us and the CSA told me not to put a claim in as they would cancel each other out.

2 weeks ago (yes i have been chasing them up) it all started again. We have now found out that she was claiming as a single parent at the beginning of the claim.

My questions -
How can there be two parts of the assessment, his wage minus protected income is the assessment, how can they then use other income to change it from a 50% assessment to a 30% assessment
Is there anyway we can make them take the house into consideration. (net searching states they can)
Can they take disability benefits into account.
Can they take the disability element of child tax credit into account.
I understand from searching the net they have to take all our mortgage into account due to disability and theres a child living here, can anyone confirm that and what law it applies to.
They are not declaring all their income, he works full time, has a taxi service, hires his taxi out, they have a lodger, she now works extra hours as its the run up to xmas so full time instead of part time - how can I make them see this.
How can I make them believe us that she was living with someone (she left my husband to move another man in within 3 days)
How can I get them to take my daughter into consideration,
The CSA gave the wrong info when 1 child came to live with us, how to I get them to back date a decision.

Back payments, I have chased them, she has chased them, and due to the CSA's incompetance we could be owing 1000's and she will rub her hands in glee, from a net search (the white paper) if it is due to their incompetance that they have the power to write of debts over 6 months old, does anyone have the actual law on this.

We have no issue in paying maintenance, what gets my goat, is they have two cars, a house that was free of debt, 3 - 4 holidays a year, just done a loft conversion, had a fully fitting bedroom put in, a new kitchen. They get the child allowance, child tax credit, they both work and fiddle the system, whilst we are struggling to pay our mortgage.

Sorry is longwinded but I can see this blowing all out of proportion just in time for Xmas

kelloggs36

The maximum they can assess for is 30% of net income, so even if notional assessment is more, they can't ask for more than 30% except if arrears are owed.

If the house was signed over AFTER 1991, then they CANNOT take it into account as the legislation prevents them from doing so. No solicitors should have advised this as it cannot happen.

All tax credits are taken into account if the NRP is the higher earner.

If you have disabled children in the household, then providing they get DLA then you should get a disabled child premium for them.

100% of housing costs should be taken into account as you say, because there is a child living in the household. It is part of the Child Support Act 1991

Does the PWC and her new partner have children together? If not then he is not assessed. However you can apply for a Variation on the grounds that he can contribute towards her housing costs which may make a difference.

If you can PROVE this other income then send in the evidence and report them for fraud.

Can you PROVE that she was living with him? If not, then there is nothing you can do, and in any event, you would have to provie it to Income Support. If Income Support do not backdate closure of her INcome Support claim, then the CSA cannot do anything about it.

Your daughter will be part of the protected income - she cannot be given any allowances under the exempt income part of the calculation, it is the legislation

If you have EVIDENCE of when a child came to live with you and can prove that you notified them of this AT THE TIME then you may have a case - ask for a data protection print of all the info held about the case to see if they have a record of when you notified them of the change. However, it may have been that it made no change to the assessment anyway

capper_2

Hi, thanks for the info.

To go on further from your points - Property settlement post 1993 I found this on the net hence my original question -
Capital/property settlement after 1993 can be taken into account. See Child Support (Miscellaneous and Special Cases) Regulations, Schedule 3A
As well as giving her the home, he also ended up taking on the mortgage for the new home they bought together (they had two homes) and I found this -
iii . For the benefit of any child who at the time of the debt was incurred lived with the NRP and PWC and the PWC is the parent.
It should be noted that the NRP cannot apply in respect of loans upon which he has assumed responsibility as part of the ancillary relief settlement unless the debt concerned is the mortgage on the former matrimonial home.
Also this in regards to arrears, I've found lots of references to it - If the agency has caused a delay of more than 6 months then their policy is to demand only the last 6 months' worth of initial arrears providing the AP promises to pay both those and the regular payments.
They almost always forget to explain that this is their policy and accidentally demand the whole lot.
This policy was initiated by a White Paper entitled "Improving Child Support", January 1995, ISBN 0-10- 127452-1.




To answer your other questions, the PWC and her new husband have 2 children together.
I can't prove that he moved in straight away, nor can I prove that she claimed benefits. What I do know is she is claiming (or was) as a single parent to the CSA and she wasnt. Therefore I assume single persons poll tax etc. I do know that she instigated this claim and she has never claimed income support.
As for my daughter, I think its disgusting that she doesnt form part of the calculations. The CSA are therefore saying that I have to pay for his children and put my own in care :mad:.
Yes I know he has a moral and legal obligation to his children, but I would have thought at £155k house would have been enough.



I spoke to the CSA again, and they say categorically that all our housing expenditure will NOT be taken into consideration, its our tough luck basically that we have a large mortgage regardless of the reasons.



All I have with regards to when one of the children came to live with us is a date and name that I spoke to, again I have been told its tough luck.



I think as it has been suggested, I contact my MP. Also send a letter to the inland revenue (about him not declaring all income), benefits agency (not declaring income and getting more child tax credit) and the poll tax people. I may not be able to prove it, but hopefully they will investigate.



I'd appreciate your views on the above quotes and appreciate your advise so far.



This whole system stinks. It's so biased to the PWC unless the NRP looks like a bad deal then its biased for the NRP imo and experience.

Vomityspice

I won't comment on the area of legislation that I am unfamiliar with, however, I will comment on the details with regards you child who is currently residing in a residential placement.

As a qualified and experienced Social Worker, the 'threat' being made against you to 'place a Care Order on her' is unhelpful (to say the least!).

I am presuming that she has periods of respite / contact with you?

Without getting too technical, I am also assuming that her placement is joint funded between Education and Social Care & Health (these department names are changeable depending on which Local Authority we are talking about). This is because she will have a Statement of Educational Need (Education bit), whilst (SC&H) are providing the care part? Is that correct? Have you signed a Sec 20 Voluntary Accommodation agreement? Do you attend Statutory reviews every six months?

Anyway, the point is that the 'threat' is hollow. So what if they take out a Care Order? How will that change anything that will impact on you? You can still have contact (which can be agreed as part of the Care Proceedings) without ANY of the financial obligations! Call their bluff (as it likely to be just that!). Local teams are meant to 'work in partnership' with the parents not threaten them. Depending on your circumstances, financial input from you would be applicable, however, an assessment of you means should indicate your abilility to help with the costs. Whilst I would not want to advocate that you abdicate your financial responsibility for your child, the method used to 'encourage' you to fund her expenses seem unwarranted.

Phone the nice Social Worker (you can check if they are qualified on the GSCC website!), and upset them a little by saying something like ' Given what you said to me, I now think it best that you do start Care Proceedings, the stress on me is immense and I am now unable to cope due to the pressure.' and then watch them backtrack and 100 miles per hour!

From a qualified and professional standpoint, the advice you were given was rubbish! (But it does save the Local Authority money!)

capper_2

I have thought about that option VS, unfortunately if I do that, they won't hesitate to take her out of her placement and the placement was awarded by the courts (hence the 7 year court battle to get her the care she needs). There is a Sec 20 on her, but it isnt signed by me as the court order and the fact I instigated it on her behalf means its automatic.
As it is the fight starts again next July when she becomes a 'legal' adult. The placement is until she is 19 but the court care order is only legally binding till she is 18.
SS have agreed to keep her their till she is 19 but are already petitioning to remove her then and put her in a bungalow within our local authority (The school she goes to lasts until she is 25, then there is bungalows on site which means she has access to the same facilities, so for her there would be no change of care).
I'm between a rock and a hard place with regards to her continuity of care.

As she is in a 'school' residential placement funded as you say till she is 19 she comes under child rules hence me getting child tax credit for her but no DLA or child benefit. Once she claims benefits on her own merit, SS will take it all off her anyway bar the obligatory £22? pw. As her clothing bill comes to more than that, as a mum, I could see her want for clothing or basic necessities, she has no quality of life at the best of times

capper_2

On just on a matter of interest on how bad my SS is:
I can claim child benefit IF the child is in residential placement due to disability and I contribute more than the benefit, which I do.
But my SS refuse to confirm this with the benefits agency stating that she is their because I want it and it's not needed.
Even appealing and my solicitor sending in the transcripts of the court order and the reports made on her by independent professionals hasn't got me anywhere.
As far as the benefits agency go, unless SS confirm the Sec 20 is for the reason of disability they can't award the benefit.

To make matters worse, if I got child benefit then the CSA would take her into the protected income (or so they say)

Vomityspice

If the Court 'instructed' that the placement was made, then any attempt by the local authority to move her, without the consent of the court would be seen as a contempt of court (and something most authorities usually wouldn't even attempt, given that their legal advisers will point this out)

The Section 20 should be signed by you irrespective of the Court direction. You also mention 'court care order' which I don't understand. As a 'looked after' child (Sec. 20), she would be entitled to support under the Leaving Care Act 2000. This would provide continued funding (Both accommodation costs and Young person's allowance) until 19 years old when normally a 'transition' plan should be carried out to more her on into 'Adult Services'. I presume you have a copy of her 'Pathway Plan' which should indicate the goals the local authority is attempting to attain?

There are provisions within the Leaving Care Act for local Authority's to continue funding (upto 26 - but check as my memory might be failing!) as long as the young people are in further education or training. I'm not sure it this applies in your case? As an additional thought, is your case held with Disabilities or the Childcare Team? It will make a difference in terms of long term planning..... Also what is your 'Reviewing Officer' saying about the L/T plan. Is your child separately legally represented. If you / she feel that the LA have acted 'ultra vires' (Beyond there powers) you have the opportunity to apply to the court for 'Judicial Review'. It's complex, but would force the LA to evidence to the Court it was acting withing the law and proportionately.

It may also be helpful to initially speak with the LA's 'Children's Rights Officer' before instigating a formal complaint. The advice here would be to understand the system that LA's are constrained by. There are normally 3 stages. The first can be dealt with by the local team. If you are unhappy with the outcome (always get it in writing!), ask for the complaint to progress to stage two. At this stage the complaint's office will look at your complaint (i.e. is independent of the team). If you are unhappy with their conclusion, you then get stage three which is a completely independent investigation into your complaint. LA's will usually bend over backwards to avoid a stage 3, as complaints which are found against councils are not only published, they also attract a financial penalty by the Government. Remember at every stage, you MUST be informed of your rights to progress your complaint (or they don't then complain about that as well!!).

On the subject of DLA then why can not your daughter make her own claim? It's not really my area of expertise by it's a thought as she would be entitled to make a claim?

I don't really understand why the SS won't speak with the Benefit's agency. If they refuse, formally complain. As I have already said, look up your worker on the GSCC website. If your worker (PA LCA?) isn't qualifies then they probably don't know what they are doing! Always worth checking..... Also if your worker HAS said they are a Social Worker and are not qualified (in a letter ?), then complain again as that is actually a criminal offense!

It would seem your SS as acting in some form of pique.

Hope that might help you in the right direction!

kelloggs36

capper wrote: »

Hi, thanks for the info.

To go on further from your points - Property settlement post 1993 I found this on the net hence my original question -
Capital/property settlement after 1993 can be taken into account. See Child Support (Miscellaneous and Special Cases) Regulations, Schedule 3A
As well as giving her the home, he also ended up taking on the mortgage for the new home they bought together (they had two homes) and I found this -
iii . For the benefit of any child who at the time of the debt was incurred lived with the NRP and PWC and the PWC is the parent.
It should be noted that the NRP cannot apply in respect of loans upon which he has assumed responsibility as part of the ancillary relief settlement unless the debt concerned is the mortgage on the former matrimonial home.
Also this in regards to arrears, I've found lots of references to it - If the agency has caused a delay of more than 6 months then their policy is to demand only the last 6 months' worth of initial arrears providing the AP promises to pay both those and the regular payments.
They almost always forget to explain that this is their policy and accidentally demand the whole lot.
This policy was initiated by a White Paper entitled "Improving Child Support", January 1995, ISBN 0-10- 127452-1.




To answer your other questions, the PWC and her new husband have 2 children together.
I can't prove that he moved in straight away, nor can I prove that she claimed benefits. What I do know is she is claiming (or was) as a single parent to the CSA and she wasnt. Therefore I assume single persons poll tax etc. I do know that she instigated this claim and she has never claimed income support.
As for my daughter, I think its disgusting that she doesnt form part of the calculations. The CSA are therefore saying that I have to pay for his children and put my own in care :mad:.
Yes I know he has a moral and legal obligation to his children, but I would have thought at £155k house would have been enough.



I spoke to the CSA again, and they say categorically that all our housing expenditure will NOT be taken into consideration, its our tough luck basically that we have a large mortgage regardless of the reasons.



All I have with regards to when one of the children came to live with us is a date and name that I spoke to, again I have been told its tough luck.



I think as it has been suggested, I contact my MP. Also send a letter to the inland revenue (about him not declaring all income), benefits agency (not declaring income and getting more child tax credit) and the poll tax people. I may not be able to prove it, but hopefully they will investigate.



I'd appreciate your views on the above quotes and appreciate your advise so far.



This whole system stinks. It's so biased to the PWC unless the NRP looks like a bad deal then its biased for the NRP imo and experience.

They have withdrawn the 6 months delay thing, so all arrears are payable, regardless of who caused them - this was withdrawn some years ago.

The only time that property transfer can be taken into account is if the tranfer was agreed prior to April 1993 http://www.dsdni.gov.uk/csa2008-old.pdf see page 113 under the heading property transfers. I have not seen any other details that suggest that it is later.

kelloggs36

Right, have found this: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/csa/dmg/ but the Court order to transfer must have been made before May 1993 from what I can make out.

capper_2

Thanks kelloggs your advice is appreciated, looks like we are up the creek without a paddle and the PWC will continue to rake it in. We will continue to fight the housing issue even if its the fact that 'how can she claim housing costs when she has a mortgage free house until she and her new husband chose to put debt back on'. That should not be our problem or our responsibility.
But we will go through the proper channels thou and see if we can get the MP involved in regards to the disability side of the child tax credits and my daughter.

VS- court care order - I meant the care order was awarded by the courts, and the courts made the decision what should happen to her and not SS.
In our authority transition happens from 17-18, her case is looked after by the disabilities team and they are in the process of producing her 'adult' care plan.
They want her to move out of the special boarding school into a disabled bungalow under the care in the community banner. I do have a case against this as she requires 24/7 care.
I know they have the funding to keep her where she is but this authorities position is to bring as many young adults back into the community as the funding then comes out of a special fund provided by the government instead of their budget. This authority is actually one of the worst in England and in the bottom few for children's services.
She is legally represented in her own right or was when the court case was going on.
I do realise that we are going to have a fight on our hands and just have to go through the motions as i did last time (via complaints, solicitors then the courts).
As for DLA, no she cant claim in her own right as she is looked after 24/7. I've had independant and SS advisors contact me and go through what she is entitled to, what happens to the benefits she can claim and what is more financially viable at this moment in time.
I have instigated the complaints about the child benefit, but it got me no where, and legal advice is not free as the benefit is paid to me not to the child, therefore its me bringing a case. Unfortunately its one of those grey areas and legal counsel have advised against pursuing it. You are right they are doing this as a form of pique.
I have the same SW as I had for the last 10 years and he is registered, he had to prove his credentials to the court, wish he wasnt because I would love to 'stuff it to him' lol.
I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't, I could just let them get on with it, she would not be a financial drain but stuck without the care I beleive she needs. Or I can continue fighting, being financially responsible, she gets the care she needs but it puts us in a difficult situation with regards to paying CSA.
After all the CSA are saying his children come before a disabled child. (She is the oldest of the lot of them lol)