Hybrid Vs BEVs

GreatApe

Hybrids (very different from the past) will win the race this is why

Model 3 Low range ..........£30k....100 miles......150kg. <--- this option doesn't exist but it should
Model 3 Standard range ..£40k... 210 miles......320kg
Model 3 long range...........£48k....310 miles.....480kg

Range extender generator. 80kg £1,500 additional extra available on all the models listed and adds £300 mile range with petrol

Which would you go for? I would go for the low range version for £30k +£1.5k range extender
Such a vehicle would be 99% electric miles for me with the generator kicking in for just 2-3 hours per year

So what's the downside? The power of such a vehicle would be less since they have less batteries. The standard range power of 210KW would be reduced to something closer to 100KW (130 horse power) so the 0-60 time would be reduced from 5.6 seconds to about 10 seconds which is perfectly acceptable!

GreatApe

So why don't these pure BEVs with generators exist?

Well until about now the battery technology wasn't there and the price point was expensive
You need about 25KWh battery pack to offer acceptable acceleration and with the newer chemistries to offer the rapid discharge rates without degradation to allow for acceptable acceleration. The existing and historic hybrids needed full sized engines because their battery only acceleration would have been a joke. A 40 mile range 10KWh plug in hybrid would have acceleration 0-60 of 25 seconds which is far too slow so the existing hybrids are full sized engine cars

A ground up pure BEV with about 25KWh battery and 100 mile range meets the 10 seconds acceleration required. So a 100 mile plug in hybrid with 25KWh battery can use a compact affordable efficient single speed generator to recharge on the go rather than a full engine and all its systems as per current Hybrids

If super capacitors become affordable (or battery chemistries with even higher discharge rates are discovered) then a hybrid with an even smaller battery pack say 12KWh battery 0.2KWh super capacitor with 50 mile range would also be able to meet the 10 second acceleration required to not be crap

GreatApe

This is my guess for the future of cars pure BEVs platform with optional single speed generators
Tesla won't do this, but most everyone else could

A pure BEV platform for mid range car like ford focus

Basic 25KWh 100mile 12 second acceleration top speed 80mph £18k
Medium 50KWh 200 mile 8 second acceleration top speed 100mph £24k
Premium 75KWh 300 mile 5 second acceleration top speed 120mph another £30k

Including an option for a generator that adds 300 mile petrol range costing perhaps £1k optional extra and losing the fronk

For most people even the basic model would be 95-100% of miles as Electric

Once popular increase petrol prices to £3 a litre this would ensure they are plugged in always. In the cars whole life the generator might only be on for 100 hours. The small quantity of petrol used would be more than offset by the hundreds of kgs of less batteries that need to be manufactured

Of course the die hard purist can buy the premium 300 mile range for £30k but most people would be better served with the 100 mile £18k basic version + £1k generator

Every single model can use the same generator they don't need to be bigger or more powerful in fact this setup could use the same generator maybe in two different power trims across almost all their vehicles

almillar

So why don't these pure BEVs with generators exist?

What's wrong with the i3 REx, or Vauxhaull Ampera, or London Taxi? All with petrol engines that only top up the battery, not drive the car.
Start with these existing products - where do you go from there?

GreatApe

almillar wrote: »

What's wrong with the i3 REx, or Vauxhaull Ampera, or London Taxi? All with petrol engines that only top up the battery, not drive the car.
Start with these existing products - where do you go from there?

Having a quick look at the vauxhall Ampera it's a full sized engine and generator and only 50 miles battery and only during no hard acceleration. Plus I would wager such a pack would get no more than about 50,000 miles range (1,500 cycles at 35 miles)

I'm talking about a battery pack big enough to allow full acceleration without need for a full sized petrol engine and generator. This likely means in the region of 25KWh and 100 mile range. 80miles at 2,500 cycles with more modern chemistry would allow 200,000 Electric miles

The vauxhall Ampera is 1.4 litre engine and probably 50HP plus generator
Imagine rather a 0.4 litre engine and 20HP generator

Battery tech is now at a place where 25KWh can offer 10 second acceleration 0-60 so even in hard acceleration it would be pure EV

The test will be when manufacturers offer all three versions in the very same model
A ford fiesta
Low range + generator £20,000 (98% miles electric)
Mid range + generatoe £27,500 (99% electric)
Long range pure EV. £35,000. (100% electric)

almillar

I'm talking about a battery pack big enough to allow full acceleration without need for a full sized petrol engine and generator

So I repeat, that's exactly what the i3 REx is!

Battery tech is now at a place where 25KWh can offer 10 second acceleration 0-60 so even in hard acceleration it would be pure EV

Again, the original i3 (REx or BEV) had less kWh than that , and a faster 0-60 than that.