Unpaid Fare Penalty

trailingspouse

BoGoF wrote: »

You took a deliberate decision to not buy a ticket before boarding and you have already said that you understand there is a buy before you board policy. That's the bottom line.

So you think it's perfectly reasonable for them to sell tickets on the train sometimes, but not all the time. To sell tickets 'after the fact' if you've travelled from some stations but not others. To charge you the full fine sometimes, but take the lower cost option if they feel like it.



I would prefer to know where I stand so that I can make an informed choice. If I'd known there would be no conductor, I would have waited for the next train. But there's always been a conductor, in my experience - so I made a decision to pay on the train (I did NOT make a decision not to pay at all).


Interestingly, both the guy who issued me with the UFN, and the conductor on the return journey, told me I should appeal because, in their words, the system is not fit for purpose. They know themselves that they are penalising otherwise law-abiding passengers who would never dream of fare-dodging (there were 3 of us, on my train alone!), because the system won't allow some passengers to pay retrospectively.



If I go to the supermarket and find there's no-one on the checkout to take my money, I don't get accused of shoplifting if I then go to the Customer Service desk to try to pay for my shopping.


I sent the appeal off a couple of days ago. I'll let you know how it goes.

esuhl

trailingspouse wrote: »

I would prefer to know where I stand so that I can make an informed choice.

And now you know. In a compulsory ticket zone, where tickets are available to buy, you must buy a ticket before boarding a train.

trailingspouse wrote: »

Interestingly, both the guy who issued me with the UFN, and the conductor on the return journey, told me I should appeal...

I'm not surprised. If fare-dodgers think they can appeal and "sort it out later" they're more likely to accept the penalty fare and avoid a confrontation with platform staff.

trailingspouse wrote: »

I sent the appeal off a couple of days ago. I'll let you know how it goes.

If you were travelling in a compulsory ticket zone, you won't have any grounds to appeal. Good luck, though.

Takmon

trailingspouse wrote: »

If I go to the supermarket and find there's no-one on the checkout to take my money, I don't get accused of shoplifting if I then go to the Customer Service desk to try to pay for my shopping.

A similar analogy would be that nobody is at the checkout so you load the stuff into your car and go to a different branch of the supermarket to pay for the goods.

Jono111

The OP should consider what would have happened if a ticket inspector had found him during the journey.
I have a feeling it would have been a slam dunk fine.

bartelbe

It would be interesting to see this tested in court, I doubt that many railway terms and conditions would be legal, if tested.

Of course the sensible thing to do is pay up and put it down to experience.

stragglebod

bartelbe wrote: »

It would be interesting to see this tested in court, I doubt that many railway terms and conditions would be legal, if tested.

Of course the sensible thing to do is pay up and put it down to experience.

Tell you what - get yourself caught fare dodging, ignore any opportunities to settle so it goes to court, then please not guilty and tell the magistrates that the prosecution isn't legal, and let us know how you get on.

I got a post removed from this thread because I told the OP to take responsibility for their own actions. If I were to post what I think of your response I'll get my account deleted.

trailingspouse

I've just received a response to my appeal letter. See below.


Thank you for your letter dated 14th October 2019.

I have amended the amount owing to £1.50, please make payment in accordance with the instructions on your Unpaid Fare Notice.

For the future, please ensure that you obtain a valid ticket or Promise to Pay notice before boarding the train or you may be liable for a Penalty Fare.





The £1.50 is the difference between the single fare that I had to buy for the return leg of my journey, and the cost of the return fare I would have bought if I'd had the opportunity - no problem at all with paying that, obviously.


stragglebod - I think your comment must have been removed before I saw it - but I would agree with you about taking responsibility for ones own actions. And I do. Part of that responsibility is to stand up for yourself when you believe that something is unfair, which is what I have done - successfully.

Dymphna60

What a good outcome for you .
When I read your post I sympathised with you as when I travel from my local station ,which has a ticket office , signs state you must not travel without a ticket or will receive a fine . However there is usually someone on the train checking tickets and cheerfully selling all sorts of tickets never saying that a ticket should be bought before travel.

yorkie2

Takmon wrote: »

A similar analogy would be that nobody is at the checkout so you load the stuff into your car and go to a different branch of the supermarket to pay for the goods.

What a weird, inaccurate analogy; the OP specifically said they " went straight to the Ticket desk [analogy: checkout] to [pay]."


There is a lot of confusion in this thread about terms such as Penalty Fare, Unpaid Fare Notice, and Fine. These are all different concepts and are not one and the same thing. Only some companies issue Penalty Fares, while a UFN can be used in different ways by different companies. An actual fine could be the final outcome in a case of suspected fare evasion, however train companies cannot issue these themselves and would have to successfully prosecute through the courts if they wish to go down that route.



Anyway I am glad it worked out OK on this occasion.

Takmon

yorkie2 wrote: »

What a weird, inaccurate analogy; the OP specifically said they " went straight to the Ticket desk [analogy: checkout] to [pay]."

If you read the OP again you will see on this occasion instead of going to the ticket desk and getting a ticket at the first station [analogy: supermarket branch] they instead boarded the train without one.

They then went to buy a ticket at a different station after they had used the service so effectively "tried to pay at a different supermarket branch" because you are supposed to buy a ticket before you travel when the station you are leaving from has a ticket office.