First blackout of the wind power heavy system

GreatApe

Hexane wrote: »

Cost for this could be quite low, for example the hardware and software for this is already installed in my home (see signature)

I agree I think the logic circuits for this would be quite basic

This type of 'virtual' battery would be useful and no significant waste in building or losses in charging and discharging

GreatApe

mmmmikey wrote: »

The power cut was on the day the CCGT failed.

Huge UK power cut caused by generator 'failure' at Hornsea wind farm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/uk-power-cut-hornsea-wind-3196187.amp


Wind power is responsible indirectly for their being insufficient inertia
Wind power is directly responsible for tripping (requiring more load shedding than if it had not tripped)

This is not to say we should abandon wind
This is to say wind project should be forced to build 'virtual' inertia so we don't suffer problems like this again

mmmmikey

GreatApe wrote: »

I agree I think the logic circuits for this would be quite basic

This type of 'virtual' battery would be useful and no significant waste in building or losses in charging and discharging

Something we agree on I think the potential to use immersion heaters to balance supply and demand is huge, both to reduce demand when the grid is stressed but also as a "dump load" to usefully soak up spare wind power on windy days and solar when the sun shines.

GreatApe

Martyn1981 wrote: »

I think your confusing frequency response, fast response gas generators (like a jet engine), or diesel farms, with a large gas plant, which are used for demand following but not rapid response.

In fact, wind is used a lot for demand following, as it can be dialed down quite easily and quickly, and hence why it gets 'curtailment payments' for doing so.

For large centralised generation, particularly nuclear, where each reactor has enormous capacity, these developments need particular care and back up expenditure, since the loss of a single reactor, could mean the instant loss of 1.6GW, and place enormous strain on the grid, whereas the loss of one PV panel, one wind turbine, or even a whole wind/PV farm, will have far less instantaneous impact.

I doubt I'll find it again but there was some article/study estimating the lifetime back up costs for Hinkley Point C at ~$12bn, given the impact of 1.6-3.2GW of instantaneous loss. But I've no idea why it was in dollars.

Nuclear power stations do trip (not often) but they don't lose power instantly (it would be good if they did!!) They have thermal mass and inertia so when they trip it takes some minutes for the power to reduce this gives the grid time to react

Also you can build multi turbine reactors that is what sizewell B is
It's a 1.2GW reactor with two turbine sets so each turbine is 600MW (actually 660MW iirc)
So it can run with half power and one turbine if one has tripped

Also any backups for nuclear would be fine for multiple units.
A single GT would be fine to backup 30 X sizewell B's that's a £500m investment to backup £150 billion of reactors basically a rounding error

Hexane

GreatApe wrote: »

Near AI, not bear AI. Would have been obvious to most

Probably, but they have you on ignore. So they only see the parts of your posts that I quote. It works quite well.

Martyn1981

mmmmikey wrote: »

Something we agree on I think the potential to use immersion heaters to balance supply and demand is huge, both to reduce demand when the grid is stressed but also as a "dump load" to usefully soak up spare wind power on windy days and solar when the sun shines.

This already exists in the US, I'll try to find a link.

Basically, for agreeing to have your A/C 'mucked about with' you get a discount on your leccy bill. When demand is high and supply is struggling, the A/C can be turned off (there are time limits) to reduce net load on the system.

So you save money regardless, then use a bit less leccy when supply is short, and save a bit more. I think those trialing the system were happy.

"I'll be back!"

Not the best link, but all I can find quickly:

Discover why the utility company may be turning your AC off during peak usage.

mmmmikey

GreatApe wrote: »

Nuclear power stations do trip (not often)

Undoubtedly true. A good example of a nuclear power station tripping would be Chernobyl, and that was a long time ago, so no big deal then.....

Hexane

mmmmikey wrote: »

Undoubtedly true. A good example of a nuclear power station tripping would be Chernobyl, and that was a long time ago, so no big deal then.....

Probably an over-reaction

GreatApe

mmmmikey wrote: »

Undoubtedly true. A good example of a nuclear power station tripping would be Chernobyl, and that was a long time ago, so no big deal then.....

Chernobyl could never happen again because all new nukes and in fact all old non-Russian commercial nukes have containment buildings

https://youtu.be/ciStnd9Y2ak

gefnew

hi
so what happens when hp has to have its outage period for reactor checks and fuel rods replaced pipes for the coolant system renewed
which is a long period of time.
gef