DIY'ing double extension in parts

newbridge

I have got a planning permission for side-double & rear single extension. Getting some crazy quotes from builders locally, so have been pondering on how to reduce the cost.


- Do you think it is sensible to get the ground works trade directly who would do make the changes(additions) required to drainage and build/concrete to dpm level. So a brick laying contractor can pick it up at a later stage(after few weeks/months)


- Doing foundation as planned for double extension, but build only single extension first with a flat roof(assuming flat roof would be reused as floor after few years when we can resume 2nd floor construction)?


Or am I digging hole for myself with above ideas:o

Doozergirl

So, how big is this extension and what are the quotes you are getting?

How much money do you need to save? There's no point starting down your own project managing route if you still can't get to where you need.

Of course a single storey will cost less than a double one and you're at liberty to build the second storey when you want to.

Do you have the plans to post? I've had to deal with a lot of people who simply look to build the biggest extension they can, but don't actually need to go that far. The best thing to do is scale the extension to what is actually needed. There my not even be that much of a compromise if approached creatively.

The secret to success is all in the planning. Balance budget with your requirements from the start.

TELLIT01

You would need to make sure that the timber used for the flat roof is of a spec which would be suitable for an upper floor at a later date. Unless you know the building trade well I think you are creating issues for yourself by potentially trying to project manage the build yourself. You are still going to need all the trades at some point so what do you see as the benefit of doing everything piecemeal?

newbridge

Please find the links below


https://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh454/londonrulz/schema1%202_1.png

https://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh454/londonrulz/schema2%202.png

newbridge

Doozergirl wrote: »

So, how big is this extension and what are the quotes you are getting?
Lowest quote I have got is £80k and highest is £105k. Lowest one does not include patio doors, skylight & bathroom materials.





How much money do you need to save? There's no point starting down your own project managing route if you still can't get to where you need.

Initial idea was to do kitchen extension only(quoted £35k) but thought of side double as a friend mentioned its cheaper to added 2nd floor. Then later ended up with both side double and rear single!




Of course a single storey will cost less than a double one and you're at liberty to build the second storey when you want to.

Do you have the plans to post? I've had to deal with a lot of people who simply look to build the biggest extension they can, but don't actually need to go that far. The best thing to do is scale the extension to what is actually needed. There my not even be that much of a compromise if approached creatively.


The secret to success is all in the planning. Balance budget with your requirements from the start.

After talking to a another friend who is about to have an extension finished via a builder, said it is lot hassle even when employing a builder instead of individual trade and that I might be better off using £80-£100k to move to another bigger property(we are up north).


Having spent £3k already, and being a MSEforum'er, I am trying to find value by trying building at best price at my pace. But that could go wrong and hence trying to get perspective from MSE!

newbridge

TELLIT01 wrote: »

You would need to make sure that the timber used for the flat roof is of a spec which would be suitable for an upper floor at a later date. Unless you know the building trade well I think you are creating issues for yourself by potentially trying to project manage the build yourself. You are still going to need all the trades at some point so what do you see as the benefit of doing everything piecemeal?

I don't know building trade that well. Only a diy'er learning from web.



May be the issue is, I don't know approx cost of individual trades (eg- groundworks-drainage, brickwork / roofing, windows/doors, plumbing, electrics, cost of labour and materials). The huge range in quotes received is making me think if there is scope for savings on certain tasks.


I also see huge discounts in materials(doors/windows, electrics,bathroom, flooring) at certain time of year so pacing the build at own time will allow me to buy materials at discount. Don't know if trades would slightly cheaper too during off season.

Doozergirl

newbridge wrote: »

After talking to a another friend who is about to have an extension finished via a builder, said it is lot hassle even when employing a builder instead of individual trade and that I might be better off using £80-£100k to move to another bigger property(we are up north).


Having spent £3k already, and being a MSEforum'er, I am trying to find value by trying building at best price at my pace. But that could go wrong and hence trying to get perspective from MSE!

Ah, it's the bloke down the pub again!

As I was saying, it's important from the start to look at your budget and needs. It's also really important to look at the value of your house and what it will be worth once the work is done, if you haven't decided that this is your forever house.

The main money saving comes at the beginning with the design. Did you discuss a budget with your designer?

There is no doubt that having the builders in is a huge upheaval and incredibly stressful, but if you're doing it all yourself and trying to tie the trades together, particularly when you have no experience, then you're in for a year of sleepless nights. Your friend is utterly naive if they think it wouldn't be any worse.

Your quotes indicate that there is some truth that if you build something 4 times bigger, there is some cost saving in the price per square metre, but of course it's relative. Building work is still hugely expensive.

If you want a kitchen extension, have a kitchen extension.

I'm going to be frank here, but I'm happy to help with this rather than just slate everything, but I am going to point out some glaring flaws. The design is poor with vast amounts of wasted space. Space that you have to pay for.

Look at all of that dead space in the new rear bedroom - a bedroom that is 6 metres long (generous!) by 2.6 metres wide (barely useable as a double room). You should be able to benefit from a greater width across the back.

Downstairs there's a room off a room which doesn't comply with building regulations as the sofa room has no window.

If you're sitting in the lounge, it's more convenient to use the upstairs bathroom than the downstairs loo, which is some 20 metres from the door.

Are you attached on one side? I need to see the context of development here, because I can't work out why you have only gone partially across the back on both ground and first floors.

Downstairs the offset has created a massive kink in the kitchen run and the sink is about five metres from the hob for some reason.

Anyhow, the first thing to do here is to look at how much you actually have to spend, and make a list of what you want your extension to provide for you...

Doozergirl

newbridge wrote: »

I don't know building trade that well. Only a diy'er learning from web.



May be the issue is, I don't know approx cost of individual trades (eg- groundworks-drainage, brickwork / roofing, windows/doors, plumbing, electrics, cost of labour and materials). The huge range in quotes received is making me think if there is scope for savings on certain tasks.


I also see huge discounts in materials(doors/windows, electrics,bathroom, flooring) at certain time of year so pacing the build at own time will allow me to buy materials at discount. Don't know if trades would slightly cheaper too during off season.

There is no off season for builders.

The only fluctuation in pricing is on kitchens/bathrooms/double glazing etc from major retailers using smoke and mirrors. The best prices are available all year round for the trade and that would be available to you as a self-builder.

StumpyPumpy

newbridge wrote: »

Having spent £3k already, and being a MSEforum'er, I am trying to find value by trying building at best price at my pace. But that could go wrong and hence trying to get perspective from MSE!

I know nothing about house building or the costs involved but I do know about the concept of "sunk costs" and the problems of chasing money already spent. The £3k you have spent already is a sunk cost and is essentially unrecoverable.

Too many people let sunk costs influence future decisions and this seldom ends well. It is summarised with the aphorism "throwing good money after bad" and most people are susceptible to doing it because all they see is the possibility of a loss and therefore chase after it regardless. In your circumstance you have to ask the question "do I want to risk £100k+ trying to salvage £3k?". It isn't easy to walk away from a loss but it is sometimes the only rational decision.

You've already almost tripled your potential costs by chasing "more value for money" in going for a double extension over the original plan of a simple kitchen extension. Do you actually have a use for two extra bedrooms and bathrooms? Are you so much in love with your house that your friend's suggestion of spending the £100k+ on upgrading to a different one in the same area doesn't work? Only you really know the answer to this. It is also worth keeping in mind that more often than not a house with planning permission granted carries a premium over one that doesn't so your £3k could actually stand a better chance of being recovered if you decided to sell rather than if you decide to continue.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you should walk away - I don't know your circumstances or motivation for the extension and what I would do is irrelevant - I'm just saying that you should consider the position you are currently in without regard to past actions or spend and decide whether if you had this information on day 1 of the project you would proceed with it.


SP

newbridge

Thank you for your detailed response.

Doozergirl wrote: »

Ah, it's the bloke down the pub again!

As I was saying, it's important from the start to look at your budget and needs. It's also really important to look at the value of your house and what it will be worth once the work is done, if you haven't decided that this is your forever house.

The main money saving comes at the beginning with the design. Did you discuss a budget with your designer?
yes, we had around 70k in mind. But got carried away along the process:o





There is no doubt that having the builders in is a huge upheaval and incredibly stressful, but if you're doing it all yourself and trying to tie the trades together, particularly when you have no experience, then you're in for a year of sleepless nights. Your friend is utterly naive if they think it wouldn't be any worse.

Your quotes indicate that there is some truth that if you build something 4 times bigger, there is some cost saving in the price per square metre, but of course it's relative. Building work is still hugely expensive.

If you want a kitchen extension, have a kitchen extension.

I'm going to be frank here, but I'm happy to help with this rather than just slate everything, but I am going to point out some glaring flaws. The design is poor with vast amounts of wasted space. Space that you have to pay for.

Look at all of that dead space in the new rear bedroom - a bedroom that is 6 metres long (generous!) by 2.6 metres wide (barely useable as a double room). You should be able to benefit from a greater width across the back.

Increasing width would overlap with existing upstairs bathroom and extra cost to move bathroom somewhere else.


Downstairs there's a room off a room which doesn't comply with building regulations as the sofa room has no window.




If you're sitting in the lounge, it's more convenient to use the upstairs bathroom than the downstairs loo, which is some 20 metres from the door.

Are you attached on one side? I need to see the context of development here, because I can't work out why you have only gone partially across the back on both ground and first floors.



yes it is a semi-detached house. Attached the block plan below


Downstairs the offset has created a massive kink in the kitchen run and the sink is about five metres from the hob for some reason.

There is a shared drain coming from neighbor. The inspection chamber is being moved right till the end and hence the offset in the kitchen.


Anyhow, the first thing to do here is to look at how much you actually have to spend, and make a list of what you want your extension to provide for you...

https://i.postimg.cc/L5F59mFr/schema3.png

TELLIT01

newbridge wrote: »

Don't know if trades would slightly cheaper too during off season.

The only 'off season' for a good tradesman is when the weather is too bad to do the work. If you find somebody who can start next week you should be wondering why. It might be a genuine cancellation or delay in another project or it may be that anybody who knows them avoids using them.