Fire

Andyed201

What are peoples thoughts on the FIRE movement? It seems to be really going in popularity at the moment and is appearing in blogs, podcasts and the news a lot.

I like the principal of things like saving rates and low cost, tax efficient savings, although I am not so much of a fan of the massive spending cuts a lot of people in FIRE advocate - I like a little money for living!

Is it a realistic ambition for most people?

GDB2222

Early retirement is often associated with subsequent poor health.

tacpot12

It is realistic. I retired at 53 having saved relatively modest amounts of money. If I had put my mind to it in my 20s and 30s, I could have probably retired five years earlier.

itwasntme001

The fact that it is gaining in popularity together with a stock market boom tells you something. I imagine many (nearly all?) have not accumulated enough to actually retire in their 20s/30s/40s when they have potentially 40-60 years as they are basing their assumption on the "4%" rule and ignoring sequence of returns risk completely. So it is a nice idea in theory but that theory is highly flawed so many will end up having to go back to work either due to realizing they do not have enough or that they are just bored. On the bright side some may setup their own business and earn enough to sustain them which would more then outweigh a corporate job earning probably multiples of what they earn in their business. Also i imagine many are probably from middle class families so would have significant inheritances coming their way to "bridge any gap".


So overall i do not see anything wrong with it as such except that i imagine many are relying too much on silly rules that does not take into account all the risks adequately, in particular sequence of returns.

webnibbler

As a concept FIRE seems half right to me. Striving for the Financial Independence bit would definitely benefit everyone, in fact investing to retire at some point in the future is exactly that. I like the idea that one day it's possible to have enough stashed away to make work optional and if restructuring or illness means it's goodbye to the office then there's no stress, you can simply walk away knowing it will be ok. What some US bloggers crudely call f*** you money.

The second Retire Early bit feels a bit reactive and negative. Why not simply find a job you can actually enjoy, while knowing you have the FI bit under your belt? Then there's no need to crave an escape from the office which seems to motivate so many FIRE advocates. I think I would find myself leafing through the jobs websites the next day if I retired early.

coyrls

GDB2222 wrote: »

Early retirement is often associated with subsequent poor health.

Poor health is often associated with subsequent early retirement. What is your evidence that poor health is subsequent to early retirement?

Terron

webnibbler wrote: »

The second Retire Early bit feels a bit reactive and negative. Why not simply find a job you can actually enjoy, while knowing you have the FI bit under your belt? Then there's no need to crave an escape from the office which seems to motivate so many FIRE advocates. I think I would find myself leafing through the jobs websites the next day if I retired early.

Why so negative about not working?

I always had far more I wanted to do than I had time for when I was working. Even when I stopped working I still had more than enough to fill my time.

GDB2222

coyrls wrote: »

Poor health is often associated with subsequent early retirement. What is your evidence that poor health is subsequent to early retirement?

You could start with the evidence here.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/can-retirement-lead-to-an-early-death-why-quitting-work-could-kill-us-7tdqtzfdp

Because it is obviously difficult to distinguish cause and effect in these cases, it's always going to be hard to determine conclusively.

Staying active, with lots of interests, after early retirement is a really good idea if you want to live a long and healthy life. I doubt many people would disagree with that suggestion?

Taking early retirement in order to sit on the sofa and watch daytime TV all day. Personally, that doesn't appeal and I very much doubt its a healthy option. I'd rather be working. Any job.

I didn't mean that it's inevitable that people who retired early will suffer ill health, but it's a risk and worth being aware of so you can take reasonable steps to avoid it. Sorry if I caused offence.

Marine_life

I don't see anything wrong with the FIRE movement per se. After all, its simply another example of our need to belong: https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-the-need-to-belong-2795393. And essentially making a decision to engage in some financial planning has to be a good thing, right?

What slightly irks is the way the 'movement' (or you might call it a cult in the case of Mr MoneyMoustache), set its rules and membership criteria i.e. you can't be serious about being a member of the movement if you "want" certain "things" (and woe-betide those who buy a frothy coffee or two). And don't DARE be FI and not RE because w**k is the devil.

So here's the thing:

- make some good financial decisions
- have a broad life plan (but keep it flexible)
- work or don't work, its up to you
- change your mind as frequently as you like
- use examples of what others have done to guide your decisions if you think it's right for you.....or don't if you don't.

The one thing you can guarantee is once you call something a movement, then someone is making money out of it.

coyrls

GDB2222 wrote: »

You could start with the evidence here.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/can-retirement-lead-to-an-early-death-why-quitting-work-could-kill-us-7tdqtzfdp

Because it is obviously difficult to distinguish cause and effect in these cases, it's always going to be hard to determine conclusively.

Staying active, with lots of interests, after early retirement is a really good idea if you want to live a long and healthy life. I doubt many people would disagree with that suggestion?

Taking early retirement in order to sit on the sofa and watch daytime TV all day. Personally, that doesn't appeal and I very much doubt its a healthy option. I'd rather be working. Any job.

I didn't mean that it's inevitable that people who retired early will suffer ill health, but it's a risk and worth being aware of so you can take reasonable steps to avoid it. Sorry if I caused offence.

A different view here: https://www.ft.com/content/982dc8b2-9a7e-11e5-a5c1-ca5db4add713
Obviously taking early retirement in order to sit on the sofa and watch daytime TV all day would not be a good idea. I doubt that is the plan for many who take early retirement other than for some of those that retire early because of ill health.

Albermarle

It's been around for a while and there are a few advocates of very early retirement ( most I suspect hated their jobs ) , but it does seem to becoming more on trend recently. I do not think scrimping during the best days of your life when you are young, is worth it just to retire at some unusually early age
As someone has already said though, investing/saving for/achieving Financial Independence can bring the security/freedom of choice that is a nice feeling .
This brings the possibility to retire early, but it's up to the individual whether they wish to or not.
As usual some kind of balanced approach between enjoying today, and at the same time making plans for tomorrow, would work best for most people.