Saint James's Place

SweatyBald

Hi All,


This is my first post in this forum so hello to everyone. Just wanted to post a couple of comments for feedback on the above.


I've read a lot of stuff about SJP - including on here - and a lot of it is negative. The feedback has generally been about poor performing funds and expensive charges. I've used SJP for around 8 years now and I wonder what I'm missing.


I think what a lot of people don't realise is that it is not SJP that you are dealing with, but one of their "Partners", who operate usually as Appointed Representative under the FCA scheme. Partners are essentially advisors and salespeople who deal only in SJP funds.


SJP approached me years ago after my name was passed to them by a trusted colleague, hence I agreed to meet them. Have to say they sorted out my investments in a way that I just never had time to do. The Partner I dealt with really did set me on a course which has worked out well (so far). The checkups and reports they send me are really useful, and I never have to fill out a form, just sign them once they're complete.



When I read about charged, I re-checked by getting a written statement of all their charges. What you again have to realise is that there's a flat charge from the SJP fund that you are investing in, and then the Partner will add on their own fee. That can vary between Partners and I don't know if SJP have any rules about it.


What I do know is that if you invest a small amount of money for a short time, you will get stung. But as my investments grew, I negotiated fees down. They are still about 1% higher than a high street ISA or on-line platform, but when I work out 1% on the amount I have, that's less than £2K per year. Last time I bought a mortgage, the IFA that sold it picked up a £3K commission, which he declared to me. Even IFAs are taking considerable fees even for ISAs and so forth in many cases. Their exit fees (at 6%) seem huge, but of course they taper off over 5 (or is it 6?) years - so again for pensions, that doesn't really matter unless you switch early.



In terms of fund performance, again I was concerned that they seemed to have so many poorly performing funds, so I sat down and used the FT and Citywire to check on returns. It seems to depend on the period you look at - 3 months, 6 months, 3 years or more. When I looked at 3 and 5 year funds, they seem to be top half and top quarter mostly. And retirment funds you are investing for 20+ years. Comparing the funds I have with SJP and my three other pensions, they seem to have outperformed all of them, net of fees, cumulatively over a 5-year period.



So yes, they are expensive, but fees seem to be negotiable and I think if you are a HNW individual, the fees are probably more competitve than for average investors.


So I'm interested in anyone's comments, and welcome any other experiences, but with a clear head, I'm struggling to see why not to keep investing with them and considering moving other old company pensions into the same funds.



But I stress, maybe it's just the particular Partner I use.



Thanks for any comments.
Baldy.

Alexland

SweatyBald wrote: »

I've read a lot of stuff about SJP - including on here - and a lot of it is negative. The feedback has generally been about poor performing funds and expensive charges. I've used SJP for around 8 years now and I wonder what I'm missing.

Sure SJP have happy customers who pay their charges and accept their fund choices.

But you are missing out on wider investment choices and a lower cost service from a good IFA.

Or the lower cost option of DIY investment if you are willing to invest the time and brainpower.

Alex

Clive_Woody

Thanks for taking the time to register here to promote SJP.

I think normally MSE require employees or official representatives to ask permission to post here first and even then, posting marketing information promoting a company is frowned upon :money:

Seabee42

Some of their customers do not complain because they do not understand how much they are paying for the same products as other people. The advice is not independent and they have questionable practise on how they report the performance and fees. They are not out right crooks (i.e. selling car parking space) but are only a choice for the gullible in my opinion. Your post looks like it was written by them though.

SonOf

I've used SJP for around 8 years now and I wonder what I'm missing.

Probably a few tens of thousands of pounds due to their higher charges.

I think what a lot of people don't realise is that it is not SJP that you are dealing with, but one of their "Partners", who operate usually as Appointed Representative under the FCA scheme. Partners are essentially advisors and salespeople who deal only in SJP funds.

You are dealing with SJP using their sales reps.

When I read about charged, I re-checked by getting a written statement of all their charges. What you again have to realise is that there's a flat charge from the SJP fund that you are investing in, and then the Partner will add on their own fee. That can vary between Partners and I don't know if SJP have any rules about it.

And the level of those charges is higher than typical independent adviser levels.

Last time I bought a mortgage, the IFA that sold it picked up a £3K commission, which he declared to me.

Unlike the investments though, that commission didnt cost you anything.

Even IFAs are taking considerable fees even for ISAs and so forth in many cases.

Yes, you can find expensive IFAs as well as cost effective IFAs. However, with SJP, its just expensive and limited.

So yes, they are expensive, but fees seem to be negotiable and I think if you are a HNW individual, the fees are probably more competitve than for average investors.

The more investment value you have, the greater value an IFA will be.

SJP are well known for brainwashing their staff. Not uncommon with other tied salesforces as well as they spoon feed their sales reps. Indeed, I know a compliance officer who did a short stint at SJP and he got out as he couldnt stand it. He felt it was cult like and everyone there had an absolute belief that what they did was best. That brainwashing has been known to spread to customers.

SweatyBald

To Woody: Whatever mate. These are my experiences only. I'm posting here to see if anyone else has had a good experience, or has a good opinion, or if there are any other angles I'm missing. Note I said it may be the particular partner I'm using... I'm not promoting anyone. You can stable up that high horse.

Zanderman

SweatyBald wrote: »

To Woody: Whatever mate. These are my experiences only. I'm posting here to see if anyone else has had a good experience, or has a good opinion, or if there are any other angles I'm missing. Note I said it may be the particular partner I'm using... I'm not promoting anyone. You can stable up that high horse.

Nice...

So when you said

SweatyBald wrote: »

Thanks for any comments.
Baldy.

You didn't actually mean it?

SweatyBald

So what I'm getting here is kind of the same thing. I am NOT getting independent advice (ack) and I am seeing only SJP funds (ack).
I do really struggle for free time at all frankly, let along time to stock pick. The limit of my investment view is Europe vs UK vs Asia vs US, and equities versus bonds. I also know what sector I want (blue chip internationals mainly) but would not have a clue as to individual companies.
But I am right in saying charges of 0.45% versus 1% on a portfolio of £200K equates to a difference of £1,100 per year - right?
I guess what I am saying is, if I don't want to pick my own stuff, and I can see the charges, then is there anything else that I'm missing?
In terms of credit risk, the funds are all covered by the UK's pension protection regime, and that's separate from the credit risk on SJP as a firm, right?
I just need to know if I stay with these guys is it just price and performance, and if I move away then am I looking at using a commission-based IFA instead with a broader range of products - which I might or might not want/need?
I work in commission-based sales and have done for 15 years, so I am not taken in by any pushy reps, I can tell you that.

SweatyBald

Zanderman wrote: »

Nice...

So when you said



You didn't actually mean it?

Correct, I should have said "Any comments which are not baselessly and incorrectly suggestive, nasty, pointless and unconstructive, are welcome."

jsinc

Brought to you today by the letters S J P. And by the number 2


https://www.yodelar.com/insights/st-jamess-place-review
https://www.which.co.uk/news/2017/07/exclusive-wealth-manager-st-jamess-place-misleading-customers-on-charges/

Alexland

I am willing to give Baldy the "benefit of doubt" on being a genuine SJP customer.

I see colleagues at work sign up for the warm SJP loving embrace and to the uninformed it's not the worst option they could choose. Overall they will have ok results and their money will still increase due to the underlying assets. It's just not as good as they could have done with a good IFA but everyone has choices and nothing is perfect. Frankly many of them would not be capable of going DIY despite a long career in business.

Alex