More BR Advice.....

purplelaurel74

Started new thread as my last one got hyjacked by spam message and replies!

We attended court hearing today where interim charging order was due to be made final but judge choose to adj until January when a 2nd redetermination hearing was already set.

We not sure what to do from here, we are doubtful that Picture Finance will agree to transfer negative equity into unsecured loan and then if they do A&L have to agree to remove interim order as well, however not sure if we wait until after hearing in January or just file for bankruptcy beforehand?

Could we set date for BR hearing and complete forms and everything for say end of Jan 08 then wait until after hearing to make our decision?

Also as I am director of own small business and hubby secretary should I close business or sell this to family for small amount so I can keep working as manager or leave this to OR.

Also do we just stop paying mortgage and secured loan and let it run the course?

Not sure what to do for the best now?

Are we being optimistic in thinking that house sale may still complete and also that judge may rule in our favour? I feel really mean to the pepole who are set up to buy our house as we had no idea it would be so complicated, I feel like we have led them on... do we continue to intend to sell or inform them that we can't?

Oh and I forgot to add, the girl from A&L who was wearing bright red heels and a skirt that only just covered her bottom questioned why we had £10 in our budget for hairdressing when previously we didn't have anything? I mean as a family of 4 is £10 a luxuary for a haircut each month?

Richard_S

purplelaurel74 wrote: »

Started new thread as my last one got hyjacked by spam message and replies!It does happen from time to time and it's particularly annoying when somebody uses the forum for the first time because it gives a bad impression; 90% of the time there's no problem.

We attended court hearing today where interim charging order was due to be made final but judge choose to adj until January when a 2nd redetermination hearing was already set.That happened to us and we didn't apply for an adjournment; I think it's our good old liberal minded Judiciary doing their best to protect the "little person" from big business.

We not sure what to do from here, we are doubtful that Picture Finance will agree to transfer negative equity into unsecured loan and then if they do A&L have to agree to remove interim order as well, however not sure if we wait until after hearing in January or just file for bankruptcy beforehand? It won't really matter whether you file for bankruptcy before or after the January hearing; the outcome will be the same. If you'd rather try and sell the house then leave your bankruptcy petition until the new year; providing you're prepared to put up with creditors hounding you to distraction.:eek:

Could we set date for BR hearing and complete forms and everything for say end of Jan 08 then wait until after hearing to make our decision? I don't see any reason why not, or fiind out what the waiting time is at your Court and time your petition accordingly.

Also as I am director of own small business and hubby secretary should I close business or sell this to family for small amount so I can keep working as manager or leave this to OR.As a bankrupt, you're not allowed to be a director or company secretart until you're discharged. You could resign the posts and let a trusted friend or family member take the posts until you're discharged. The problem with selling it at less than it's worth is that it's likely to result in a close examination by the O.R.

Also do we just stop paying mortgage and secured loan and let it run the course? If you intend to petition for bankruptcy then you should stop paying all creditors immediately. Start saving the cash; you'll need something of a buffer once you've got no access to credit.

Not sure what to do for the best now?

Are we being optimistic in thinking that house sale may still complete and also that judge may rule in our favour? It's a possibility; somethings are never black or white and property frequently falls into that area.I feel really mean to the pepole who are set up to buy our house as we had no idea it would be so complicated, I feel like we have led them on... do we continue to intend to sell or inform them that we can't?When you're in this position you really have to do whatever is best for you and your self interest. You could find your potential buyer trying to take advantage of your misfortune at some point; we certainly did with ours.

Oh and I forgot to add, the girl from A&L who was wearing bright red heels and a skirt that only just covered her bottomOh dear, what can I say; she could have had a pound of my flesh.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: questioned why we had £10 in our budget for hairdressing when previously we didn't have anything? They're Shylocks and they're paid to think like that.:eek: I mean as a family of 4 is £10 a luxuary for a haircut each month?

It's Dickensian; the O.R will allow you more than that.

Hi purplelaurel,

I've tried to answer some of your questions and apologies for the font colour; red seems to be out of order at the moment.

Best regards

Richard

jellycat40

Oh dear you must be feeling really low with all this uncertainty going on.

I cannot advise about the property but the fact is you cannot be a company director or company secretary if you are BR. However you can put a few things in place and still have your company. You can contact a company such as UKplc who will act as your company sec for you for about £50 a year for this they do your returns and stuff. Really good service. You will need to get another signatory for your bank account attached to your business as you will no longer be able to deal with the money or sign cheques. i got my daughter to do this.

The problem of the directorship is difficult - either a family relative you trust or a close friend may be the best thing. It can be overcome and when you are discharged after 6months or so you can re take up the position.

Def stop paying anyone anything once you decide to go BR. You will need over £400 for the petition for the court and you will have your bank accounts frozen and your cards removed so you will need a cash buffer as the previous poster said. My OR never made me close my bank accounts as the child benefit etc went into it and the Co op let me have a new card very quickly.

Good luck with it - my BR was for £130k so I do know how worrying it can all be.

18 months down the line - I live in rented accommodation (private) and I have no debts or companies chasing me for money. it is not always easy as obviously I now can only spend what I have and this week my food bill was wiped out by my car needing a new tyre and as yet savings are still a thing I dream of.

Louise

purplelaurel74

Hi, thank you both, it is so reassuring to know life on the other side isn't so bad. We feel better about everything now than we ever have, we decided for our own sanity to move out of our 'home' the owned house and into rented accommodation in October and have changed telephone numbers and have mail on redirect so not getting hounded at the moment.

I feel that I would prefer to draw a big black line under our mistakes and just get on but my husband isn't so sure!

We have 2 kids under 5 and know that if we don't put an end to this soon it will probably end us!

Does bankruptcy include all debts secured and unsecured? Our secured debt is currently for £270,000 and unsecured of £86k our hosue is worth around £225k (market value) and have offer on the table from buyer for £212k, the sale would clear 2/3 or debt and leave us with £145k but a much higher surplus of £1300 a month to pay this off! Seems so straightforward to us but loosing hope that its worth the hassle!

Final question - do we have to file for BR as a couple or separately? If separately does this mean double the fees?

betterlatethannever

Hi Purple, i'm afraid you have to file seperately and yes it does mean double the fees!!! but there are exemptions. I was on a low income and got exempt. Its always worth filling in the form (ex160 i think? available from the court)
It will save you the court fee of £150, which is something.

fermi

A shortfall in secured debts resulting from sale, repossession or handing back of the property should become an unsecured debt that is included in the BR.

If you are selling before BR be careful if you are not getting fair market value. Get advice from the organisations in my signature (National Debtline may be best).

philnicandamy

Hiya Purple

Have a look here for BR fee exepmtions

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex160a_e1007.pdf

and the form (ex160) to claim BLTN suggested is here

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex160_e1007.pdf

Richard_S

purplelaurel74 wrote: »

Hi, thank you both, it is so reassuring to know life on the other side isn't so bad. We feel better about everything now than we ever have, we decided for our own sanity to move out of our 'home' the owned house and into rented accommodation in October and have changed telephone numbers and have mail on redirect so not getting hounded at the moment.

I feel that I would prefer to draw a big black line under our mistakes and just get on but my husband isn't so sure!

We have 2 kids under 5 and know that if we don't put an end to this soon it will probably end us!

Does bankruptcy include all debts secured and unsecured? Our secured debt is currently for £270,000 and unsecured of £86k our hosue is worth around £225k (market value) and have offer on the table from buyer for £212k, the sale would clear 2/3 or debt and leave us with £145k but a much higher surplus of £1300 a month to pay this off! Seems so straightforward to us but loosing hope that its worth the hassle!

Final question - do we have to file for BR as a couple or separately? If separately does this mean double the fees?

Hi Purple,

There must be something about the male psyche that makes bankruptcy feel like a mortal wound. We were declared bankrupt as a couple and my O.H accepted that it was inevitable months before I did. I fought it tooth and nail and had to be dragged kicking and screaming into reality when an over zealous creditor did the deed for us. I was still trying to do deals on the morning of the Court hearing. With the benefit of hindsight I can't believe what an arrogant, pig headed jerk I'd been. If we'd done it six months earlier, it would have saved us from a six month nightmare where we were working 70hr weeks trying to fight the inevitable. I'm more than happy to P.M my email address to you if your hubby would like some reassurance that it doesn't turn a guy into a eunoch overnight;:eek: :eek: on the contrary, getting rid of all that strees and aggravation made me feel like a teenager again;:D well almost.;)

Your bankruptcy will include all debts whether secured or unsecured; it doesn't change the status of the secured debts, in as much as they're still secured on the house, but they can't chase you for any shortfall.

With a surplus of £1,300 you'll pay approximately 70% of that figure into an IPA for three years, but that's infinitely better than considering an IVA or trying to do deals with your creditors.

I would urge you not to lose hope; you've already accepted reality and adjusted your expectations accordingly; if you can just get your O.H to take the same brave mental steps that you have then you're so close to getting your life back.

Regards

Richard

purplelaurel74

What is an IPA?

tigerfeet2006

This is the explaination on the Insolvancy Service website

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/guidanceleaflets/ipoipa/ipoipa.htm