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Euro Car Park
Ailpo
Posts: 6 Forumite
Can you please advise on the recent issue the driver overstayed the maximum hours in the Euro Car Park. The maximum was 3 hours to stay and the driver stayed 3 hours and 31 minute.
As I am the legal keeper I have appeal euro car parks.
The response was: Dear Mrs my name and surname,
Thank you for your letter of appeal. The details of the Parking Charge Notice are as follows:
Parking Charge Notice Number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxDate of Issue: xxxxxxxxx
Vehicle Registration Mark: xxxxxx Time of Issue: XXXXXX
Car Park: Marks & Spencer - xxxx
Breach of Terms and Conditions:
Your vehicle was parked longer than the
maximum period allowed
Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you we have decided to reject your appeal for
the following reasons:
Euro Car Parks do not need to provide evidence of who was driving the vehicle, it is the
registered keeper’s responsibility to inform of the full name and UK Serviceable address
within 28 days beginning with the day after the notice was given. If the full amount remains
unpaid, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (‘the Act’), Euro Car Parks
have the right subject of the Act to recover from the keeper of the vehicle at the time it was
parked so much of that amount which remains unpaid.
If you were not the driver please provide the full details of the driver of the vehicle at the time
the Parking Charge Notice was issued (full name and UK serviceable address).
Should you provide an incorrect address for service, we will pursue you for any parking
charge amount that remains unpaid. Should you identify someone who denies they were the
driver, we will pursue you for any parking charge amount that remains unpaid.
The car park is operated by Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) – cameras capture
an image of vehicles entering and leaving the car park and calculate their length of stay.
Parking at the above site is limited to 180 minutes.
On entry to private land it is the responsibility of the driver to check for signage and ensure
that your vehicle has been correctly parked.
Your vehicle was parked longer than 180 minutes, therefore the notice was issued correctly
and remains payable.
Please make payment of the discounted amount of £50.00 by visiting our website at
eurocarparks or use the automated telephone service 0203 553 4559. Alternatively make
your cheque payable to Euro Car Parks Limited (to include a £2.50 handling charge for cheque
processing) and post to Euro Car Parks Ltd, 30 Dorset Square, London, NW1 6QJ, quoting the PCN
number on the reverse of the cheque.This amount is now due and the charge will be held for 14 days
to allow time to make the payment. If payment is not received by this time the charge will increase to
C1 MB
AR/MS/v.001
£85.00 and this may also result in the notice being passed to a third party with further charges
applicable.
You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure.
You can make an appeal to the Independent Appeals Service, POPLA (Parking on Private Land
Appeals) using the unique POPLA Reference code provided above. Please note, should you decide
to appeal to POPLA and your appeal is subsequently rejected, the option to pay a discounted amount
will NO longer be available and the FULL AMOUNT of the PCN will become due.
Please note - if the ticket was issued in SCOTLAND and or NORTHERN IRELAND, ONLY “THE
DRIVER” can appeal to POPLA.
If you/the driver decides to appeal to POPLA, you will need to visit the website, xxxxxxxx website
where further details of how to appeal (either online or by downloading the relevant forms) can be
found. If the driver is unable to access the website, please call us for further information on how to
obtain the forms. Please ensure that the POPLA Reference Number as noted above is quoted on all
correspondence to POPLA. The driver has 28 days from the date of this letter to submit an appeal to
POPLA. If the driver appeals to POPLA, we will suspend recovery activity on the PCN and the charge
will not increase until the appeal has been determined.
Appeals may NOT be accepted if payment is made against the Parking Charge Notice, including any
appeals logged via POPLA, if applicable.
If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via debt recovery
procedures and many proceed with Court action against you.
By law we are also required to inform you that the Ombudsman Services (ombudsman-
servicesorg/) provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with
your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution
services. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.
Yours sincerely
PCN Coordinator
Parking Charge Notice Department
Here is my suggested POPLA Appeal for your verdict. Looking forward to your comments:
POPLA Verification Code: XXXXXXX
Vehicle Registration: XXXXXXX
I, the registered keeper of this vehicle, received a letter dated xxxxxx acting as a notice to the registered keeper (NtK). My appeal to the Euro Car Parks was submitted and rejected via an email dated xxxxxx. I contend that I, as the keeper, am not liable for the alleged parking charge and wish to appeal against it on the following grounds:
1. Grace Period: BPA Code of Practice
2. No evidence of Period Parked – NtK doesn’t meet PoFA 2012 requirements
3. Vehicle Images contained in PCN: BPA Code of Practice – non-compliance
4. The ANPR System is Neither Reliable nor Accurate
5. The Signs Fail to Transparently Warn Drivers of what the ANPR Data will be used for
1. Grace Period: BPA Code of Practice – noncompliance
The BPA’s Code of Practice states (13) that there are two grace periods: one at the end (of a minimum of 10 minutes) and one at the start.
BPA’s Code of Practice (13.2) states that:
“You should allow the driver a reasonable “grace period” in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the driver is on your land without permission, you should still allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave before you take enforcement action.”
BPA’s Code of Practice (13.4) states that:
“You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes
The BPA’s guidance specifically says that there must be sufficient time for the motorist to park their car, observe the signs, decide whether they want to comply with the operator’s conditions and either drive away or pay for a ticket”. Looking at the time on my parking ticket and the time on PCN I can clearly say that Euro Car Parks ignored my right as a driver for a grace period upon the entry. Same happened upon leaving the car park when again the time needed to get out of car park avoiding numerous potholes was not taken into account. The car park surface needs improving indeed, it looks like a mined field, in addition it was Saturday – always busy day in any town with a lot of pedestrians and other drivers.
2. No evidence of Period Parked – NtK doesn’t meet PoFA 2012 requirements
PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 paragraph 9 refers at numerous times to the “period of parking”. Paragraph 9(2)(a) requires the NtK to:
“specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates”
The NtK states that the vehicle “entered (location) at (entry time) and departed at (exit time)”. At no stage do Euro Car Parks explicitly specify the period of parking to which the notice relates, as required by PoFA 2012.
Euro Car Parks NtK states “we are using cameras to capture images of vehicles entering and leaving the car park to calculate their length of stay”. It is not a privilege of Euro Car Parks to substitute “entry/exit” or “length of stay” with “period of parking” – and hold the keeper liable as a result.
By virtue of the nature of an ANPR system recording only entry and exit times, Euro Car Parks are not able to state the period of parking.
3. Vehicle Images contained in PCN: BPA Code of Practice – non-compliance
The BPA Code of Practice clearly states in section 20.5a that photographs must refer to and confirm the incident which you claim was unauthorised. A date and time stamp should be included on the photograph.
The PCN in question contains two close-up images of the vehicle number plate. Neither of these images contains a date and time stamp “on the photograph” nor do they clearly identify the vehicle entering or leaving this car park (which is also not identifiable in the photos as of any particular location at all).
The time and date stamp have been inserted into the letter underneath (but not part of) the images. The images have also been cropped to only show the number plate. As these are not the original images, I require Euro Car Parks Limited to produce evidence of the original “uncropped” images with the required date and time stamp and to evidence where the photographs show the car to be when there is a lack of any marker or sign to indisputably relate these photos to the location stated.
The evidence has been provided via email on xxxxxx car entering and car leaving the premises xxxxxx times.
4. The ANPR System is Neither Reliable nor Accurate
Paragraph 21.3 of the BPA Code of Practice states that parking companies are required to ensure ANPR equipment is maintained and is in correct working order.
I require ECP to provide records with the location of the cameras used in this instance, together with dates and times of when the equipment was checked, maintained and synchronised with the timer which stamps the phone images to ensure the accuracy of the images.
As “grace periods” are of significant importance in this case and the parking charge is founded entirely on two images of the vehicle number place allegedly entering and leaving the car park at specific times, it is vital that ECP produces the evidence requested in the previous paragraph.
5. The Signs Fail to Transparently Warn Drivers of what the ANPR Data will be used for
The signs fail to transparently warn drivers of what the ANPR data will be used for which breaches the BPA Code of Practice and the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 due to inherent failure to indicate the 'commercial intent' of the cameras.
Paragraph 21.1 of the BPA Code of Practice advises operators that they may use ANPR camera technology to manage, control and enforce parking in private car parks, as long as they do this in a reasonable, consistent and transparent manner. The Code of Practice requires that car park signs must tell drivers that the operator is using this technology and what it will use the data captured by ANPR cameras for.
Euro Car Parks’ signs do not comply with these requirements because this car park signage failed to accurately explain what the ANPR data would be used for, which is a 'failure to identify its commercial intent', contrary to the BPA CoP and Consumer law.
There is no information indicates that these camera images would be used in order to issue Parking Charge Notices. There is absolutely no suggestion in the sentence above that the cameras are in any way related to Parking Charge Notices.
I therefore request that POPLA uphold my appeal and cancel this PCN.
Thank you for your help
As I am the legal keeper I have appeal euro car parks.
The response was: Dear Mrs my name and surname,
Thank you for your letter of appeal. The details of the Parking Charge Notice are as follows:
Parking Charge Notice Number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxDate of Issue: xxxxxxxxx
Vehicle Registration Mark: xxxxxx Time of Issue: XXXXXX
Car Park: Marks & Spencer - xxxx
Breach of Terms and Conditions:
Your vehicle was parked longer than the
maximum period allowed
Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you we have decided to reject your appeal for
the following reasons:
Euro Car Parks do not need to provide evidence of who was driving the vehicle, it is the
registered keeper’s responsibility to inform of the full name and UK Serviceable address
within 28 days beginning with the day after the notice was given. If the full amount remains
unpaid, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (‘the Act’), Euro Car Parks
have the right subject of the Act to recover from the keeper of the vehicle at the time it was
parked so much of that amount which remains unpaid.
If you were not the driver please provide the full details of the driver of the vehicle at the time
the Parking Charge Notice was issued (full name and UK serviceable address).
Should you provide an incorrect address for service, we will pursue you for any parking
charge amount that remains unpaid. Should you identify someone who denies they were the
driver, we will pursue you for any parking charge amount that remains unpaid.
The car park is operated by Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) – cameras capture
an image of vehicles entering and leaving the car park and calculate their length of stay.
Parking at the above site is limited to 180 minutes.
On entry to private land it is the responsibility of the driver to check for signage and ensure
that your vehicle has been correctly parked.
Your vehicle was parked longer than 180 minutes, therefore the notice was issued correctly
and remains payable.
Please make payment of the discounted amount of £50.00 by visiting our website at
eurocarparks or use the automated telephone service 0203 553 4559. Alternatively make
your cheque payable to Euro Car Parks Limited (to include a £2.50 handling charge for cheque
processing) and post to Euro Car Parks Ltd, 30 Dorset Square, London, NW1 6QJ, quoting the PCN
number on the reverse of the cheque.This amount is now due and the charge will be held for 14 days
to allow time to make the payment. If payment is not received by this time the charge will increase to
C1 MB
AR/MS/v.001
£85.00 and this may also result in the notice being passed to a third party with further charges
applicable.
You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure.
You can make an appeal to the Independent Appeals Service, POPLA (Parking on Private Land
Appeals) using the unique POPLA Reference code provided above. Please note, should you decide
to appeal to POPLA and your appeal is subsequently rejected, the option to pay a discounted amount
will NO longer be available and the FULL AMOUNT of the PCN will become due.
Please note - if the ticket was issued in SCOTLAND and or NORTHERN IRELAND, ONLY “THE
DRIVER” can appeal to POPLA.
If you/the driver decides to appeal to POPLA, you will need to visit the website, xxxxxxxx website
where further details of how to appeal (either online or by downloading the relevant forms) can be
found. If the driver is unable to access the website, please call us for further information on how to
obtain the forms. Please ensure that the POPLA Reference Number as noted above is quoted on all
correspondence to POPLA. The driver has 28 days from the date of this letter to submit an appeal to
POPLA. If the driver appeals to POPLA, we will suspend recovery activity on the PCN and the charge
will not increase until the appeal has been determined.
Appeals may NOT be accepted if payment is made against the Parking Charge Notice, including any
appeals logged via POPLA, if applicable.
If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via debt recovery
procedures and many proceed with Court action against you.
By law we are also required to inform you that the Ombudsman Services (ombudsman-
servicesorg/) provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with
your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution
services. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.
Yours sincerely
PCN Coordinator
Parking Charge Notice Department
Here is my suggested POPLA Appeal for your verdict. Looking forward to your comments:
POPLA Verification Code: XXXXXXX
Vehicle Registration: XXXXXXX
I, the registered keeper of this vehicle, received a letter dated xxxxxx acting as a notice to the registered keeper (NtK). My appeal to the Euro Car Parks was submitted and rejected via an email dated xxxxxx. I contend that I, as the keeper, am not liable for the alleged parking charge and wish to appeal against it on the following grounds:
1. Grace Period: BPA Code of Practice
2. No evidence of Period Parked – NtK doesn’t meet PoFA 2012 requirements
3. Vehicle Images contained in PCN: BPA Code of Practice – non-compliance
4. The ANPR System is Neither Reliable nor Accurate
5. The Signs Fail to Transparently Warn Drivers of what the ANPR Data will be used for
1. Grace Period: BPA Code of Practice – noncompliance
The BPA’s Code of Practice states (13) that there are two grace periods: one at the end (of a minimum of 10 minutes) and one at the start.
BPA’s Code of Practice (13.2) states that:
“You should allow the driver a reasonable “grace period” in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the driver is on your land without permission, you should still allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave before you take enforcement action.”
BPA’s Code of Practice (13.4) states that:
“You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes
The BPA’s guidance specifically says that there must be sufficient time for the motorist to park their car, observe the signs, decide whether they want to comply with the operator’s conditions and either drive away or pay for a ticket”. Looking at the time on my parking ticket and the time on PCN I can clearly say that Euro Car Parks ignored my right as a driver for a grace period upon the entry. Same happened upon leaving the car park when again the time needed to get out of car park avoiding numerous potholes was not taken into account. The car park surface needs improving indeed, it looks like a mined field, in addition it was Saturday – always busy day in any town with a lot of pedestrians and other drivers.
2. No evidence of Period Parked – NtK doesn’t meet PoFA 2012 requirements
PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 paragraph 9 refers at numerous times to the “period of parking”. Paragraph 9(2)(a) requires the NtK to:
“specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates”
The NtK states that the vehicle “entered (location) at (entry time) and departed at (exit time)”. At no stage do Euro Car Parks explicitly specify the period of parking to which the notice relates, as required by PoFA 2012.
Euro Car Parks NtK states “we are using cameras to capture images of vehicles entering and leaving the car park to calculate their length of stay”. It is not a privilege of Euro Car Parks to substitute “entry/exit” or “length of stay” with “period of parking” – and hold the keeper liable as a result.
By virtue of the nature of an ANPR system recording only entry and exit times, Euro Car Parks are not able to state the period of parking.
3. Vehicle Images contained in PCN: BPA Code of Practice – non-compliance
The BPA Code of Practice clearly states in section 20.5a that photographs must refer to and confirm the incident which you claim was unauthorised. A date and time stamp should be included on the photograph.
The PCN in question contains two close-up images of the vehicle number plate. Neither of these images contains a date and time stamp “on the photograph” nor do they clearly identify the vehicle entering or leaving this car park (which is also not identifiable in the photos as of any particular location at all).
The time and date stamp have been inserted into the letter underneath (but not part of) the images. The images have also been cropped to only show the number plate. As these are not the original images, I require Euro Car Parks Limited to produce evidence of the original “uncropped” images with the required date and time stamp and to evidence where the photographs show the car to be when there is a lack of any marker or sign to indisputably relate these photos to the location stated.
The evidence has been provided via email on xxxxxx car entering and car leaving the premises xxxxxx times.
4. The ANPR System is Neither Reliable nor Accurate
Paragraph 21.3 of the BPA Code of Practice states that parking companies are required to ensure ANPR equipment is maintained and is in correct working order.
I require ECP to provide records with the location of the cameras used in this instance, together with dates and times of when the equipment was checked, maintained and synchronised with the timer which stamps the phone images to ensure the accuracy of the images.
As “grace periods” are of significant importance in this case and the parking charge is founded entirely on two images of the vehicle number place allegedly entering and leaving the car park at specific times, it is vital that ECP produces the evidence requested in the previous paragraph.
5. The Signs Fail to Transparently Warn Drivers of what the ANPR Data will be used for
The signs fail to transparently warn drivers of what the ANPR data will be used for which breaches the BPA Code of Practice and the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 due to inherent failure to indicate the 'commercial intent' of the cameras.
Paragraph 21.1 of the BPA Code of Practice advises operators that they may use ANPR camera technology to manage, control and enforce parking in private car parks, as long as they do this in a reasonable, consistent and transparent manner. The Code of Practice requires that car park signs must tell drivers that the operator is using this technology and what it will use the data captured by ANPR cameras for.
Euro Car Parks’ signs do not comply with these requirements because this car park signage failed to accurately explain what the ANPR data would be used for, which is a 'failure to identify its commercial intent', contrary to the BPA CoP and Consumer law.
There is no information indicates that these camera images would be used in order to issue Parking Charge Notices. There is absolutely no suggestion in the sentence above that the cameras are in any way related to Parking Charge Notices.
I therefore request that POPLA uphold my appeal and cancel this PCN.
Thank you for your help
0
Comments
-
Edit your post to remove information about who did what. Only ever refer to The Driver and The Keeper, who are two different people. Do this thoroughly before you do anything else.
I doubt you will get anywhere with a Grace Periods point as the total the BPA given in their CoP is twenty minutes.
If the car park was busy and the driver drove around looking for a space, and/or had to queue to get out, then frustration of contract would apply. Only state this if it is true.
I don't believe your point about ANR accuracy will work unless you can prove to the assessor it is flawed. This is the standard PoPLA reply whenever that point is made.
You should always include the long Inadequate Signage point, and No Landowner Authority you will find in post 3 of the NEWBIES.
Also include any other NTK failures you can find such as incorrect timescales , and lack of the "28 days" warning.I married my cousin. I had to...I don't have a sister.
All my screwdrivers are cordless."You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks0 -
Edit your post to remove information about who did what. Only ever refer to The Driver and The Keeper, who are two different people. Do this thoroughly before you do anything else.
I doubt you will get anywhere with a Grace Periods point as the total the BPA given in their CoP is twenty minutes.
If the car park was busy and the driver drove around looking for a space, and/or had to queue to get out, then frustration of contract would apply. Only state this if it is true.
I don't believe your point about ANR accuracy will work unless you can prove to the assessor it is flawed. This is the standard PoPLA reply whenever that point is made.
You should always include the long Inadequate Signage point, and No Landowner Authority you will find in post 3 of the NEWBIES.
Also include any other NTK failures you can find such as incorrect timescales , and lack of the "28 days" warning.
So in the other words there is not a lot I can do to win this.0 -
So in the other words there is not a lot I can do to win this.
I suggested you take out two points that I don't think have legs, and add in two different points, plus look for a possible third. I even told you where to look.
In other words, there is a lot you can do to win this, if you want to.I married my cousin. I had to...I don't have a sister.All my screwdrivers are cordless."You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks0 -
Fruitcake's comments made me thing on the ANR and the BPA time given. It is my first appeal, and I don`t know how does it work. I read quite a few treads and trying my best luck to fight the euro car parks.How on earth can you draw that conclusion from Fruitcake's post?
I received an email today so I have 28 days to appeal. I want to make sure that I have all the necessary information.0 -
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