Ebay/Paypal debt due to fraud, options ?

eci22

Hi All,

Background:
I sold an item on ebay, the buyer returned the item- he sent the item to a different address other than mine. When I told royal mail they went to this second address and recovered what was sent to this second address, they recovered some random A4 paper not the item.

I told ebay that the item has not been sent back and they closed the case against me saying as long as the tracking info shows it's been delivered that's all they need.

I have got a written statement from Royal mail saying they only got paper when they collected the item, but because it took Royal mail a long time to get this letter to me it went beyond ebay's 30 day open case policy and they now refuse to even read it.

Paypal say the debt (£600) has been passed on to westcott, I have had no correspondence from them yet. I refuse to pay as this is nothing more than fraud. I am trying to get paypal to review the evidence under their seller protection but they are just messing me around.

My account is under a business ltd company, what are my options? small claims court ? can I dispute the debt? Any advice is very much appreciated,

Thank you.

sourcrates

Hi,


Similar stories to this crop up every now and again on these boards, yes it is fraud, its obviously done deliberatly to take advantage of Paypal and Royal Mails lax investagitive work, I was caught out myself once back when I used to sell on ebay.

Do you want the good news ?

Paypal, an american company based in luxumborg, never litigate in the UK, instead they just pass any debts over to collection companies, such as wescot.
Wescot do not own your debt, therefore they cannot take you to court.

These type of debts may be passed around various collection agencies for a few months/years, eventually the debt may be sold, or you may never hear from them again, its anyones guess.


Your only option is to dispute the debt in writing when wescot contact you.
Keep disputing it, keep any evidence you may have, if, it ever did go to court, you would dispute the debt on the same grounds.

eci22

Thank you very much sourcrates for your swift response. This has been very stressful and I'm glad there's some good news.

sourcrates wrote: »

Wescot do not own your debt, therefore they cannot take you to court.

Does that mean paypal still own the debt and wescot act on their behalf ? So wescot are not able to send bailiffs around ?

One of my concerns was that I realised my address was an old registered office on paypal, If they sent me correspondence to that address I would not have gotten it. Paypal said they send letters or they email. My email is valid but I've not heard anything.

Can they send court orders etc to an address that isn't valid and legal proceedings carry on without my knowledge ?

sourcrates wrote: »

So your only option is to dispute the debt in writing when wescot contact you.

Is there a formal way to do this, is it different for a ltd company ?

Thank you again, very much appreciated

sourcrates

eci22 wrote: »

Does that mean paypal still own the debt and wescot act on their behalf ? So wescot are not able to send bailiffs around ?

One of my concerns was that I realised my address was an old registered office on paypal, If they sent me correspondence to that address I would not have gotten it.
Can they send court orders etc to an address that isn't valid and legal proceedings carry on without my knowledge ?


Is there a formal way to do this, is it different for a ltd company ?

That is correct yes, no one can just send bayliffs round, there is a formal court process to be observed first, and you have to have had judgement awarded against you, before anything formal can happen.


Its quite a common thing for court papers to be sent to an old address, even though they are supposed to do due dilligence before hand, this is called judgement in default, and can be difficult to overturn, difficult, but not impossible.


To dispute the debt, you simply set down on paper the events that led to the alledged debt in the first place, you tell them the story as you have told us, its the same process wether you are an individual or a company.

Suseka97

eci22 wrote: »

.....One of my concerns was that I realised my address was an old registered office on paypal, If they sent me correspondence to that address I would not have gotten it. Paypal said they send letters or they email. My email is valid but I've not heard anything.
Can they send court orders etc to an address that isn't valid and legal proceedings carry on without my knowledge ?

Just to add to the advice thus far. Do make sure that you remove that old address from your Paypal details and also tell them and Wescot (as and when they contact you) that the address is no longer valid and ensure they have the correct address on file -should the issue escalate. Although based on what sourcrate's has advised - I don't think it will.

custardy

eci22 wrote: »

Hi All,

Background:
I sold an item on ebay, the buyer returned the item- he sent the item to a different address other than mine. When I told royal mail they went to this second address and recovered what was sent to this second address, they recovered some random A4 paper not the item.
Like to clarify on that? Was it addressed to the first or second address?
I told ebay that the item has not been sent back and they closed the case against me saying as long as the tracking info shows it's been delivered that's all they need.
Again,address?
I have got a written statement from Royal mail saying they only got paper when they collected the item, but because it took Royal mail a long time to get this letter to me it went beyond ebay's 30 day open case policy and they now refuse to even read it.

Paypal say the debt (£600) has been passed on to westcott, I have had no correspondence from them yet. I refuse to pay as this is nothing more than fraud. I am trying to get paypal to review the evidence under their seller protection but they are just messing me around.

My account is under a business ltd company, what are my options? small claims court ? can I dispute the debt? Any advice is very much appreciated,

Thank you.

Please answer the address points first.

eci22

custardy wrote: »

Like to clarify on that? Was it addressed to the first or second address? Please answer the address points first.

To clarify, there are two addresses in this scenario, my personal address (Address A) and a random address in my area (Address .
Royal mail's tracking info show's the special delivery item is delivered to Address B with a signature I don't recognise. I go to the delivery office and query this with my tracking number. A few days later Royal Mail go to address B tell them about the problem, recover an item and hand it back (the item is random A4 paper). They now update their tracking info to show the delivered address as Address A, which is what ebay make their final decision on. I have screenshots of the tracking info and a letter from the delivery manager showing the item going to address B.

The subsequent investigation letter I have from Royal Mail says it was addressed to Address B in the first place. I can get the exact wording tomorrow if that helps.

Suseka97 wrote: »

Just to add to the advice thus far. Do make sure that you remove that old address from your Paypal details and also tell them and Wescot (as and when they contact you) that the address is no longer valid and ensure they have the correct address on file -should the issue escalate. Although based on what sourcrate's has advised - I don't think it will.

I couldn't change my address on paypal (the site just gave me an error message) when this first happened and now I can't login at all.

And I should wait until they contact me first and not contact them first correct ?

Thank you again for your responses, I am actually sleeping better because of the hope I now feel I have.

Thank you.

custardy

eci22 wrote: »

To clarify, there are two addresses in this scenario, my personal address (Address A) and a random address in my area (Address .
Royal mail's tracking info show's the special delivery item is delivered to Address B with a signature I don't recognise. I go to the delivery office and query this with my tracking number. A few days later Royal Mail go to address B tell them about the problem, recover an item and hand it back (the item is random A4 paper). They now update their tracking info to show the delivered address as Address A, which is what ebay make their final decision on. I have screenshots of the tracking info and a letter from the delivery manager showing the item going to address B.

The subsequent investigation letter I have from Royal Mail says it was addressed to Address B in the first place. I can get the exact wording tomorrow if that helps.



I couldn't change my address on paypal (the site just gave me an error message) when this first happened and now I can't login at all.

And I should wait until they contact me first and not contact them first correct ?

Thank you again for your responses, I am actually sleeping better because of the hope I now feel I have.

Thank you.

Then why was it delivered to your personal address?
If it was addressed to a random address,then it should have never been delivered to oyur address.

eci22

custardy wrote: »

Then why was it delivered to your personal address?
If it was addressed to a random address,then it should have never been delivered to oyur address.

Hi custardy,

Because Royal Mail went to address B and recovered the item and handed it back. They did this because I showed Royal Mail my tracking number and told them I have this tracking number but the address it shows as delivered is not my address. When they collected the item from Address B they called saying we've recovered the item. When the item was picked up from their delivery office it was just random paper, that's how it ended up at my address (Address A).

The person at Address B did not know what the item was and then handed it back to Royal Mail when Royal Mail went back to their Address B to query and it made it's way back to me Address A.

Thanks

custardy

eci22 wrote: »

Hi custardy,

Because Royal Mail went to address B and recovered the item and handed it back. They did this because I showed Royal Mail my tracking number and told them I have this tracking number but the address it shows as delivered is not my address. When they collected the item they called saying we've recovered the item. When the item was picked up from there delivery office it was just random paper, that's how it ended up at my address.

The person at address B did not know what the item was and then handed it back to Royal mail and it made it's way back to me.

Thanks

here is a classic example of why (trust me I have dealt with this hundreds of times) having a tracking number proves nothing.
You will see people in delivery offices jumping up and down they have a tracking no. yada yada
This is a known scam.
The item should never have been given to you and returned as refused/addressee unknown.

eci22

custardy wrote: »

here is a classic example of why (trust me I have dealt with this hundreds of times) having a tracking number proves nothing.
You will see people in delivery offices jumping up and down they have a tracking no. yada yada
This is a known scam.
The item should never have been given to you and returned as refused/addressee unknown.

In your experience is there anything else I should know about dealing with the debt that hasn't already been said in this thread ? Thank you very much.

The ethics of ebay/paypal not even looking at the evidence really hurts, I will not use ebay again and will avoid paypal as much as possible.