16 Year old Overpaid and left company

Halfie

warby68 wrote: »

For a 16 year old I wouldn't want his 'mistakes' to count against him long term in the wider world so probably would be paying on his behalf once the correct amount is proven.

He would however be paying me back, even if payback comes in the form of no Birthday or Christmas gifts, reduced phone tariff and cancelled treats - whatever 'luxuries' you currently provide as one parent.

Not sure why he can't get another temporary job over the summer though?

This is my thinking as well, as he doesn’t have any income so...

Summer jobs are few and far between and he’s 16 so very limited on what he can do where he lives due to various factors. Of course, he will be pushed to get something so he can repay this.

Exodi

Has it been lost on people that he was overpaid two months wages? You really think he didn't notice?

I do worry about that all the people advising "it may not be enforceable as he's a minor!", "they probably wouldn't take him to court for such a small sum", "could this be constructive dismissal?" etc.

Fantastic lesson to teach an impressionable 16 year old - don't worry if you owe people money, just dodge out of it on technicalities.

Such a truly sad thread to read.

Really he should negotiate that they take him back and take half his salary towards repayments or he gets a new job.

warby68

Exodi wrote: »

Has it been lost on people that he was overpaid two months wages? You really think he didn't notice?

I do worry about that all the people advising "it may not be enforceable as he's a minor!", "they probably wouldn't take him to court for such a small sum", "could this be constructive dismissal?" etc.

Fantastic lesson to teach an impressionable 16 year old - don't worry if you owe people money, just dodge out of it on technicalities.

Such a truly sad thread to read.

Really he should negotiate that they take him back and take half his salary towards repayments or he gets a new job.

Agree 100%

General_Grant

Exodi wrote: »

Has it been lost on people that he was overpaid two months wages? You really think he didn't notice?

. . .

That was definitely lost on me. I thought it was £300 which had been over-paid and that the employer was proposing to reclaim it over two months.

So it could have been a £50/month overpayment for 6 pay periods and perhaps not so easy to detect if it had arisen by, for instance, paying an adult hourly rate instead of paying a legally lower rate.

Exodi

General_Grant wrote: »

That was definitely lost on me. I thought it was £300 which had been over-paid and that the employer was proposing to reclaim it over two months.

So it could have been a £50/month overpayment for 6 pay periods and perhaps not so easy to detect if it had arisen by, for instance, paying an adult hourly rate instead of paying a legally lower rate.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic but by the OP stating her son deemed he would be working two months for free, we can deduce he is paid £150 per month (and explicitly states that this is paid monthly). The OP also states he's doing this job during exam season (which based upon the date suggests he would have started in the past few or two). Whilst we don't know the exact periods of over-payment (and I'd appreciate the OP's clarification on the matter) it would seem unlikely this was a minor over-payment over a length period. In fact, I'd hazard a guess he's worked there for two months and agree with your suggestion that he was likely being paid at the over 25 NMW rate (which is around double that of the under NMW 18 rate).

The reason I find it incredulous that he was unaware was a) it's likely over a very short period b) I actually remember when I got my first job at his age; I was incredibly aware of what my wage was. As a bonus of being under the tax threshold it was easy to work out (if I work 40 hours this month and I earn £4 an hour, I should get paid £160, and I'd get a payslip to back it up - don't forget these kids are taking exams on trigonometry and Pythagorean theorem, I'm sure basic multiplication shouldn't be a sweat.

EDIT: the issue of whether the son was aware or not of the overpayments is a moot point in these discussions however, my taking issue was almost entirely at people freely offering suggestions to dodge liability of his debt.

Gavin83

Exodi wrote: »

Has it been lost on people that he was overpaid two months wages? You really think he didn't notice?

I do worry about that all the people advising "it may not be enforceable as he's a minor!", "they probably wouldn't take him to court for such a small sum", "could this be constructive dismissal?" etc.

Fantastic lesson to teach an impressionable 16 year old - don't worry if you owe people money, just dodge out of it on technicalities.

Such a truly sad thread to read.

Really he should negotiate that they take him back and take half his salary towards repayments or he gets a new job.

Couldn't agree more. I'm stunned there are people suggesting this could actually be constructive dismissal. :rotfl:

My advice would have been the same. I'd suggest he talk to the company, explain he has no other job and no real assets and therefore can't pay it back but he'd be willing to work the time to make up the shortfall. I'd be surprised if they refused.

However I do agree with the others, they need to prove the discrepancy and provide a breakdown.

TBagpuss

I don't necessarily find it unbelievable that he didn't realise. Not every 16 year old would know what the NMW was or question it if the employer used the wrong figure. Heck, a lot of adults don't know what the numbers are.
A lot of adults don't check pay slips or bank statments and just assume that the employer is getting the figures right.

I think it is appropriate for him to ask for a break down, and also to check his paperwork. Did he get a formal offer letter or a contract which set out the correct rates?

DigForVictory

One of my lads was working cash in hand at a garden centre & got very upset with us (his parents) for researching NMW rates, how many hours you could legally work as a 16 year old etc. We just pointed out that while he chose to be taken advantage of, it wasn't right & it wasn't legal & that above all else it was stopping at the New Year as he had exams.

12 months later, I heard him laying out the same legislation & logic as we'd used, to a mate thinking of a holiday funded by a little cash in hand job. Not my business to ask, but I was amused he'd remembered that particular lesson. He was in a good place to speak from, having been there & having A levels & an apprenticeship to go to.

The business employing should be keeping proper records & if they are not & are employing a child at the wrong rate then they have put themselves & the lad in a difficult position. It's not a good start to a career to be landed a sideways blow by the boss' record-keeping. It's in both their interests to sort it & smooth it over for now & the future.

gaz_moose

I would tell him to wait and see what they come back at him with. 'play the game' and it might pan out that he does not have to end up repaying their mistake. best case he is £300 up.

teaching him to bend over and repay them straight away is not a good 'life lesson' in my book.

Les79

Exodi wrote: »

Has it been lost on people that he was overpaid two months wages? You really think he didn't notice?

I do worry about that all the people advising "it may not be enforceable as he's a minor!", "they probably wouldn't take him to court for such a small sum", "could this be constructive dismissal?" etc.

Fantastic lesson to teach an impressionable 16 year old - don't worry if you owe people money, just dodge out of it on technicalities.

Such a truly sad thread to read.

Really he should negotiate that they take him back and take half his salary towards repayments or he gets a new job.

I stand by my "constructive dismissal" query.

Irrespective of whether or not he noticed the overpayments, many people in this country would struggle to function if their employer turned round and said "you're getting £0 for the next two months because of an overpayment". You could potentially frame it as a serious breach of contract, though as I pointed out in previous post the .GOV site is a bit vague and seems to suggest that they CAN do it!! So I may be chatting wham here (never any harm in speculating)

Though, admittedly, it is a bit moot for a 16 year old. But always good to keep it in mind for the future One gripe of mine in relation to the UK educational system is that we don't teach children:

- Basic life skills relating to money/finance

- Basic life skills relating to consumer/employment rights

But I will agree with you (and my post reflected this, I believe) in that the debt needs to be paid. Also that SPEAKING TO THE EMPLOYER and getting a fair repayment plan is the most sensible solution