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The right information on the forms
GeorgeWales
Posts: 1 Newbie
My wife and I are in the process of applying for bankruptcy. Our situation is a little complicated as we have three disabled children and provide full time care for them - 1 is an adult and the 2nd isn’t far behind now.
We get a range of benefits which, as I understand, if they are in the children’s names won’t be counted as income. My wife receives the child tax credits, our carers allowance payments, and other amounts, and her account is where we pay the majority of the bills from. My account receives housing benefit and I pay out the rent. We get a 100% rebate on council tax.
We had completed the forms with exactly what is paid in and out of each account, including the council tax which I included as an income as we get paperwork saying the full amount is paid TO myself, and another saying I’ve paid the annual amount in full.
However, reading some of the posts on here makes me wonder if instead we are meant to literally have half of every household bill showing as an expense in the online forms, and all the income halved between our two accounts - other than the disability benefits in the children’s names. For these amounts my wife has put as an expense each month ‘disability related expenses’ and noted the full amount as an expense - we were advised by the CAB to do this, they said the Official Receiver will have absolutely no interest in that money as it’s not classed as our income obviously.
We didn’t ask about how we split the bills up and it will take a while to get a second appointment, so I was wondering if any of you lovely people would be able to offer some great advice?
We don’t have any other income, we got into debt as up to a point I was able to work and brought home a good income. The debts were all within our means at the time. However I broke my back and not being able to get out to work and battling the system to ensure our children had the right care and support has quite literally broken me. I had a breakdown and a short spell in hospital, and I’m now supported by the community mental health team and get the support I need. Knowing my career is over, and with so much stress and pressure, I’m just not very good at coping with difficult situations these days.
A good friend of mine is an accountant and spent a weekend with me looking at the financial situation. He said he would just apply for bankruptcy if he was in my situation, at least then we would be able to get through the month with the normal everyday household bills paid and just not have to worry every single day.
We rent our home so I know that’s safe - I have asked my landlord if he would be ok knowing we were bankrupt, he said he was more than happy for us to stay here as long as we wanted, so that’s a relief. We don’t owe any rent but I wasn’t sure if the Official Receiver informed landlords, so I thought it better coming from me.
Our children will never live independently and will always need 24/7 care, we have the constant worry of what happens once we are gone. They are such amazing children and constantly amaze me with how happy and positive they are despite not being able to do the majority of things without so much support.
Before anyone asks why we went on to have more children when we already had one with disabilities - well we adopted the younger two. Nobody wanted them, they were unloved and being passed from placement to placement. We were going to foster them but we wanted them to be ‘our’ children, not just be looking after them for the state. We would have been financially so much better off if we had fostered them as we would be paid to provide care, and get more support most likely. We didn’t care about the money, we cared about the children. Having spent a little time reading threads in here I know people can judge a little too quickly and harshly at times.
My back problems have meant my wife taking on pretty much all the manual work as I can’t even bend over without significant pain. I’m awaiting further surgery on my spine, but that just means my wife will have to do things for me too during the long recovery period. So I’m putting it off really - I wish I could get her more help, some days I truly think she’s going to break. She is the most loving and caring lady and I’m so lucky to be able to call her my wife. I’ve made such a terrible mess of everything, and I’m so ashamed that I’ve lead us to a situation that bankruptcy seems like a ‘good’ option. It’s a good job I have mental health support as some days I just think she would be better off without me getting in the way. If I’m not around she would get so much more support from the local authority and health.
I just want to ensure I get this bit right after messing everything else up. I know it’s important the expenses page is completed correctly - I’m just not too sure what 'correctly' looks like.
Also with income, if it’s paid into my wife’s account does she include it in her income? The form made it look like we should put down exactly what is paid in to the banks, not who’s name is on which payment. Yet the expenses is a little contradictory then if we are meant to halve the outgoings we pay regardless of which account it leaves.
Does this make any sense or is this just one more thing I’m making a total mess out of? If only I had been more careful and not broken my back we wouldn’t be in this horrible mess. Once we are bankrupt - that’s if the Official Receiver allows us to, it may be that they won’t allow it, I simply don’t know how they decide - we will have a little more money each month so we can ensure the bills are paid and this mess is never repeated.
One last oddity - we moved here early last year and I did what everyone would do by informing all of the utility companies. The incumbent electricity provider would not let us switch as they were chasing an historic debt from the previous house owner who had passed away some time back. My landlord purchased the property and we moved in. We gave meter readings and I even emailed pictures of the meter as it had 3 different screens of numbers that I couldn't make any sense of. I wanted them to know that was the reading at the point we moved in.
Over the coming months bills continued to arrive for the late former owner. Each time I called the supplier and reminded them that not only had she passed away but there were no details of an estate, the forwarding address really didn’t seem appropriate, and as it was a repossession property purchased from the bank chances are there simply was no money to chase. Just to add - I knew it was them writing due to the name and address on the reverse of the envelope, I obviously didn’t open the letters. I did cross them DECEASED and put them in the post box each time.
I spoke with the electricity provider several times, each time saying I thought I should have had a bill by now so I could setup a direct debit. To this day a bill has never arrived. The meter has been read 3 times in nearly 18 months. We are a big consumer of electricity due to 3 of us being here 24/7, and 2 for the rest of the time outside school hours. We also have a lot of equipment and ‘things’ that don’t get turned off. In our previous home the monthly bill for electricity was £220 a month. Over 18 months that means we will owe this supplier approaching £4,000. Which I can’t pay.
I want to include this in the bankruptcy as surely sooner or later they will want paying, but I have no account number or amount to include. Do I leave it off and is it possible to add this to the bankruptcy before we are discharged? Do I put the suppliers details and my best guess of the amount and let the Official Receiver write to them? And if I can include it again do I put half on each of our forms?
It is a very strange situation, I believe they are a very small supplier and I’m guessing they are incredibly disorganised. I have all emails to show I’ve been in contact with them and always been totally honest. I’ve sent emails just asking to be billed!
Very lastly - we don't have mains gas here, we have oil. Do I just put the oil amount in the gas box, or do I need to add it under a new amount?
Any advice would be so gratefully received, I’m hoping I can do this right and help my family to live a better and less stressful life.
George
We get a range of benefits which, as I understand, if they are in the children’s names won’t be counted as income. My wife receives the child tax credits, our carers allowance payments, and other amounts, and her account is where we pay the majority of the bills from. My account receives housing benefit and I pay out the rent. We get a 100% rebate on council tax.
We had completed the forms with exactly what is paid in and out of each account, including the council tax which I included as an income as we get paperwork saying the full amount is paid TO myself, and another saying I’ve paid the annual amount in full.
However, reading some of the posts on here makes me wonder if instead we are meant to literally have half of every household bill showing as an expense in the online forms, and all the income halved between our two accounts - other than the disability benefits in the children’s names. For these amounts my wife has put as an expense each month ‘disability related expenses’ and noted the full amount as an expense - we were advised by the CAB to do this, they said the Official Receiver will have absolutely no interest in that money as it’s not classed as our income obviously.
We didn’t ask about how we split the bills up and it will take a while to get a second appointment, so I was wondering if any of you lovely people would be able to offer some great advice?
We don’t have any other income, we got into debt as up to a point I was able to work and brought home a good income. The debts were all within our means at the time. However I broke my back and not being able to get out to work and battling the system to ensure our children had the right care and support has quite literally broken me. I had a breakdown and a short spell in hospital, and I’m now supported by the community mental health team and get the support I need. Knowing my career is over, and with so much stress and pressure, I’m just not very good at coping with difficult situations these days.
A good friend of mine is an accountant and spent a weekend with me looking at the financial situation. He said he would just apply for bankruptcy if he was in my situation, at least then we would be able to get through the month with the normal everyday household bills paid and just not have to worry every single day.
We rent our home so I know that’s safe - I have asked my landlord if he would be ok knowing we were bankrupt, he said he was more than happy for us to stay here as long as we wanted, so that’s a relief. We don’t owe any rent but I wasn’t sure if the Official Receiver informed landlords, so I thought it better coming from me.
Our children will never live independently and will always need 24/7 care, we have the constant worry of what happens once we are gone. They are such amazing children and constantly amaze me with how happy and positive they are despite not being able to do the majority of things without so much support.
Before anyone asks why we went on to have more children when we already had one with disabilities - well we adopted the younger two. Nobody wanted them, they were unloved and being passed from placement to placement. We were going to foster them but we wanted them to be ‘our’ children, not just be looking after them for the state. We would have been financially so much better off if we had fostered them as we would be paid to provide care, and get more support most likely. We didn’t care about the money, we cared about the children. Having spent a little time reading threads in here I know people can judge a little too quickly and harshly at times.
My back problems have meant my wife taking on pretty much all the manual work as I can’t even bend over without significant pain. I’m awaiting further surgery on my spine, but that just means my wife will have to do things for me too during the long recovery period. So I’m putting it off really - I wish I could get her more help, some days I truly think she’s going to break. She is the most loving and caring lady and I’m so lucky to be able to call her my wife. I’ve made such a terrible mess of everything, and I’m so ashamed that I’ve lead us to a situation that bankruptcy seems like a ‘good’ option. It’s a good job I have mental health support as some days I just think she would be better off without me getting in the way. If I’m not around she would get so much more support from the local authority and health.
I just want to ensure I get this bit right after messing everything else up. I know it’s important the expenses page is completed correctly - I’m just not too sure what 'correctly' looks like.
Also with income, if it’s paid into my wife’s account does she include it in her income? The form made it look like we should put down exactly what is paid in to the banks, not who’s name is on which payment. Yet the expenses is a little contradictory then if we are meant to halve the outgoings we pay regardless of which account it leaves.
Does this make any sense or is this just one more thing I’m making a total mess out of? If only I had been more careful and not broken my back we wouldn’t be in this horrible mess. Once we are bankrupt - that’s if the Official Receiver allows us to, it may be that they won’t allow it, I simply don’t know how they decide - we will have a little more money each month so we can ensure the bills are paid and this mess is never repeated.
One last oddity - we moved here early last year and I did what everyone would do by informing all of the utility companies. The incumbent electricity provider would not let us switch as they were chasing an historic debt from the previous house owner who had passed away some time back. My landlord purchased the property and we moved in. We gave meter readings and I even emailed pictures of the meter as it had 3 different screens of numbers that I couldn't make any sense of. I wanted them to know that was the reading at the point we moved in.
Over the coming months bills continued to arrive for the late former owner. Each time I called the supplier and reminded them that not only had she passed away but there were no details of an estate, the forwarding address really didn’t seem appropriate, and as it was a repossession property purchased from the bank chances are there simply was no money to chase. Just to add - I knew it was them writing due to the name and address on the reverse of the envelope, I obviously didn’t open the letters. I did cross them DECEASED and put them in the post box each time.
I spoke with the electricity provider several times, each time saying I thought I should have had a bill by now so I could setup a direct debit. To this day a bill has never arrived. The meter has been read 3 times in nearly 18 months. We are a big consumer of electricity due to 3 of us being here 24/7, and 2 for the rest of the time outside school hours. We also have a lot of equipment and ‘things’ that don’t get turned off. In our previous home the monthly bill for electricity was £220 a month. Over 18 months that means we will owe this supplier approaching £4,000. Which I can’t pay.
I want to include this in the bankruptcy as surely sooner or later they will want paying, but I have no account number or amount to include. Do I leave it off and is it possible to add this to the bankruptcy before we are discharged? Do I put the suppliers details and my best guess of the amount and let the Official Receiver write to them? And if I can include it again do I put half on each of our forms?
It is a very strange situation, I believe they are a very small supplier and I’m guessing they are incredibly disorganised. I have all emails to show I’ve been in contact with them and always been totally honest. I’ve sent emails just asking to be billed!
Very lastly - we don't have mains gas here, we have oil. Do I just put the oil amount in the gas box, or do I need to add it under a new amount?
Any advice would be so gratefully received, I’m hoping I can do this right and help my family to live a better and less stressful life.
George
0
Comments
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Do your best to fill it in as you understand the form, you will both have interviews with the OR where this can be ironed outGeorgeWales wrote: ».
I just want to ensure I get this bit right after messing everything else up. I know it’s important the expenses page is completed correctly - I’m just not too sure what 'correctly' looks like.
Also with income, if it’s paid into my wife’s account does she include it in her income? The form made it look like we should put down exactly what is paid in to the banks, not who’s name is on which payment. Yet the expenses is a little contradictory then if we are meant to halve the outgoings we pay regardless of which account it leaves.
Make sure you take readings on the day you go bankrupt, preferably with photographic proof. Put all the account info you have down again this ac be discussed with the OR. Any utility debt you have will form part of bankruptcy, just be sure to have proof of what usage is pre bankruptcy and which postGeorgeWales wrote: ».
One last oddity - we moved here early last year and I did what everyone would do by informing all of the utility companies. The incumbent electricity provider would not let us switch as they were chasing an historic debt from the previous house owner who had passed away some time back. My landlord purchased the property and we moved in. We gave meter readings and I even emailed pictures of the meter as it had 3 different screens of numbers that I couldn't make any sense of. I wanted them to know that was the reading at the point we moved in.
Over the coming months bills continued to arrive for the late former owner. Each time I called the supplier and reminded them that not only had she passed away but there were no details of an estate, the forwarding address really didn’t seem appropriate, and as it was a repossession property purchased from the bank chances are there simply was no money to chase. Just to add - I knew it was them writing due to the name and address on the reverse of the envelope, I obviously didn’t open the letters. I did cross them DECEASED and put them in the post box each time.
I spoke with the electricity provider several times, each time saying I thought I should have had a bill by now so I could setup a direct debit. To this day a bill has never arrived. The meter has been read 3 times in nearly 18 months. We are a big consumer of electricity due to 3 of us being here 24/7, and 2 for the rest of the time outside school hours. We also have a lot of equipment and ‘things’ that don’t get turned off. In our previous home the monthly bill for electricity was £220 a month. Over 18 months that means we will owe this supplier approaching £4,000. Which I can’t pay.
I want to include this in the bankruptcy as surely sooner or later they will want paying, but I have no account number or amount to include. Do I leave it off and is it possible to add this to the bankruptcy before we are discharged? Do I put the suppliers details and my best guess of the amount and let the Official Receiver write to them? And if I can include it again do I put half on each of our forms?
It is a very strange situation, I believe they are a very small supplier and I’m guessing they are incredibly disorganised. I have all emails to show I’ve been in contact with them and always been totally honest. I’ve sent emails just asking to be billed!GeorgeWales wrote: ».
Very lastly - we don't have mains gas here, we have oil. Do I just put the oil amount in the gas box, or do I need to add it under a new amount?
Any advice would be so gratefully received, I’m hoping I can do this right and help my family to live a better and less stressful life.
George
I'd think putting oil under gas is fine, maybe add a note (or note for yourself) to tell OR0 -
If yours and your wife's income is solely from benefits then you really need not worry about any of this. The OR will not seek to claim any income that is obtained through benefits, it’s as simple as that. Put the costs down as best you can but it won’t matter as you’ll just be marked down as having no surplus.
As for the utility bill question, as there is not actually an account in yours or your wife’s name with a debt against them
then there is no “provable” debt at this time. If they get their act together and send you one in the future then it will be covered by yours and your wife’s bankruptcy orders in any case. You don’t actually “include” debts when applying for bankruptcy, it covers ALL debts (save for court fines, student loans and child maintenance arrears) that you have prior to the order. Even if you don’t know about them! So if they send you a bill in the future then tell them the date of your bankruptcy order and any debt up to that date WILL be written off. If I were you I would write to them recorded delivery on the day of the order with the meter readings so everything is in writing and above board.0
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