Wymondham to Shenfield

I am intending on travelling from Wymondham to London using a Wymondham to Shenfield ticket. AFAIK there is no restricton prohibiting break of journey. Therefore I would like to ask if that is OK? I accept that I may have to pay a change of route excess if I go off route e.g. by using a Norwich to London Liverpool Street train which doesn't stop at Shenfield. However I am aware that these excesses are available on the train and it should be OK to board a train with the "ANY PERMITTED" route ticket.
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  • Karb
    Karb Posts: 853 Forumite
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    It depends on the type of ticket. With a Standard Open single or Standard open return, you can get off at every station if you like.


    With a Cheap day return, or saver ticket, then a break of journey is permitted on the return leg, but not the outward; and if its an advance purchase ticket, then its only valid on the train shown on the ticket.
    Debt free since December 2015. It can be done


  • Kiko4564
    Kiko4564 Posts: 217 Forumite
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    I'm getting a standard Open Return.
  • yorkie2
    yorkie2 Posts: 1,595 Forumite
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    I think you may need to explain your intended route more clearly.
  • martindow
    martindow Posts: 10,214 Forumite
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    Why are you thinking of buying a ticket to Shenfield if you want to go to Liverpool St? If you do get a Shenfield ticket you will also need to pay for the Shenfield to Liverpool St portion of the journey. Split ticketing means that you have to catch a train that stops at the splitting point so you can't use fast trains from Norwich. You may need to change trains there if your second ticket has limitations to a particular company (TfL trains only for instance).
  • Kiko4564
    Kiko4564 Posts: 217 Forumite
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    Most likely one way will be the following:
    Wymondham - Cambridge - London Liverpool St

    And the other will be this:
    London Liverpool St - Shenfield - Colchester - Norwich - Wymondham

    Or this:
    London Liverpool St - Norwich - Wymondham

    I'm aware that I'll of course have to pay the change of route excess if I get a train (on the way back) that does not call at Shenfield.
  • jbuchanangb
    jbuchanangb Posts: 1,326 Forumite
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    The GA web site doesn't seem to have a problem with offering a fare for the journey you want to do.
    Off peak return Wymondham to Shenfield £46.20. Dep Wymondham 10.52 to Cambridge, dep Cambridge 12.04 to Liverpool Street, dep Liverpool Street 13.38, arrive Shenfield 14.02. Then dep Shenfield 14.43 to Chelmsford, dep Chelmsford 15.03 to Norwich, then dep Norwich 16.38 arrive Wymondham 16.49. These all on 15th June.
  • scones
    scones Posts: 58 Forumite
    Kiko4564 wrote: »
    I am intending on travelling from Wymondham to London using a Wymondham to Shenfield ticket. AFAIK there is no restricton prohibiting break of journey. Therefore I would like to ask if that is OK?

    Not sure which type of ticket you are planning to purchase? Anytime or Off-Peak?

    Assuming you're looking at the £46.20 Off-Peak Return:
    1. National Rail website journey planner seems happy that this fare is valid via Cambridge into Liverpool Street and then onward from there to Shenfield.
    2. That fare carries the restriction code 'CZ' which means it is valid on any train except those before 0900 on weekdays. The restriction code does not specifically prohibit break of journey, so it is therefore permitted.

    So, there's no problem in breaking your journey in London. You can head back to Liverpool Street later on and complete your 'outward' journey to Shenfield later on the same day, then start your 'return' journey on the same train.

    If you're travelling before 0900 on a weekday, or if you want to have an overnight break of journey in London (up to five days) you'd need the £77.70 Anytime Return.

    I would suggest using a train that stops at Shenfield to avoid difficulty. If your train back from London didn't call at Shenfield, I don't see how you could argue that a ticket to/from Shenfield would be valid. You'd technically be changing your destination, not your route, so I don't think a change of route excess would be relevant here.
    Karb wrote: »
    With a Cheap day return, or saver ticket, then a break of journey is permitted on the return leg, but not the outward; and if its an advance purchase ticket, then its only valid on the train shown on the ticket.

    Slight point of order: 'Cheap Day Return' and 'Saver' fares haven't existed for many years now.

    You're right about Advance fares, but Off-Peak Single and Off-Peak Return fares are more complicated. Generally, these do allow break of journey on both the outward and return legs unless otherwise stated; if it is not allowed, this will be detailed in the specific 'restriction code' that applies to that fare.

    In all, there are three main ticket types and the rules boil down to:
    • Anytime: travel any time and always valid for break of journey
    • Off-Peak: travel off-peak and valid for break of journey unless specifically prohibited by the restriction code* that applies to that particular fare
    • Advance: booked train only, no break of journey


    * Restriction codes are always 2 digits (e.g. B4, 8A, G1, etc.) and can be found printed on the ticket itself or by selecting the relevant fare then viewing its T&Cs in the National Rail website's journey planner. You can find out what each code means by adding the relevant digits to the end of the www.nationalrail.co.uk/ web address. For example, to look up restriction code 1A, visit www.nationalrail.co.uk/1A
  • yorkie2
    yorkie2 Posts: 1,595 Forumite
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    edited 13 June 2019 at 10:32AM
    scones wrote: »
    I would suggest using a train that stops at Shenfield to avoid difficulty. If your train back from London didn't call at Shenfield, I don't see how you could argue that a ticket to/from Shenfield would be valid. You'd technically be changing your destination, not your route, so I don't think a change of route excess would be relevant here.
    Kiko4564 - is the intention to avoid difficulty? or is this a test of Greater Anglia, to see how they will react?

    A passenger holding a ticket between Norwich and Shenfield routed "Any Permitted" who travels beyond Shenfield might reasonably be accused of travelling beyond their destination and treated accordingly.

    A passenger holding a ticket between Norwich and Shenfield routed specifically via London who travels on a non-stop train is allowed to do so, however this may be treated with suspicion by staff who might realise that the routeing of the ticket is not intended for this purpose; they may inform their pricing department that the ticket should probably be routed via Cambridge and London (or, given the much better service via Stratford these days, they may even seek to restrict it further) as currently the fare allows a routeing that is not intended to be valid.


    (In contrast, a Glasgow to Watford Junction ticket routed via London is intended for doubling-back between Euston and Watford; the rules do allow for this, but some pricing managers for other train companies may not realise this)


    If a passenger holding the "Any Permitted" ticket argues they should not be treated as having travelled beyond their destination, because there is a mistake in the other routed ticket that allows them to double-back, is likely to get embroiled in a lengthy dispute and this will further increase the chances of the "loophole" being closed.
  • Kiko4564
    Kiko4564 Posts: 217 Forumite
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    No, it is the latter.
  • yorkie2
    yorkie2 Posts: 1,595 Forumite
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    Kiko4564 wrote: »
    No, it is the latter.
    I understand your desire to put GA to the test but I urge you to use robust, reasonable examples, where the validity of what you are doing is in absolutely no doubt.


    I strongly encourage you to not use this particular example and use a different scenario if you wish to test them.
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