Would this be a wrongful or unfair dismissal?

BrassicWoman

If you’ve already investigated and punished the time sheet issue what makes you think you can revisit it now?

Comms69

Just give him notice. Honestly you're over thinking this.


There isn't a solicitor in the land that will touch this with a bargepole.

General_Grant

KiKi wrote: »

If the *contract* states the disciplinary process (really - don't put a disciplinary process in a contract for this very reason!) then yes, it could be wrongful dismissal if you don't follow it. Which is why you'd need to go for Gross Misconduct in order to go straight to dismissal without a warning.

KiKi

Thank you KiKi for acknowledging the question about wrongful dismissal.

The OP said, "the employment contract states that our disciplinary process usually involves a first warning and final warning before dismissal". (my emphasis)

Question to OP: Is it only Gross Misconduct that allows bypassing of first and final warnings?

SeagullFTB

The issue regarding falsifying time sheets came to light at the end of last week. At this point in time, we have a disciplinary hearing scheduled but no action has yet been taken. We have been gathering evidence (which we now have) to confirm the time sheets were incorrect.

SeagullFTB

General_Grant wrote: »

Thank you KiKi for acknowledging the question about wrongful dismissal.

The OP said, "the employment contract states that our disciplinary process usually involves a first warning and final warning before dismissal". (my emphasis)

Question to OP: Is it only Gross Misconduct that allows bypassing of first and final warnings?

The contract states that a first warning and final warning is given before dismissal, unless it's gross misconduct.

Comms69

SeagullFTB wrote: »

The issue regarding falsifying time sheets came to light at the end of last week. At this point in time, we have a disciplinary hearing scheduled but no action has yet been taken. We have been gathering evidence (which we now have) to confirm the time sheets were incorrect.

Oh then fine. Clearly Gross Misconduct.

TBagpuss

I agre. Deal with it as gross misconduct.
Make sure that you document the process.A large proportion of successful employment tribunal cases are about people not following a fair / appropriate process, niot about making the wrong decision.

As long as you follow your own internal process to gross misconduct, and do things like making sure he knows he can have a co worker or union rep with him if he wants at the disiplinary it should be fine.

You don't have to have proof to a criminal court standard of what he has done, you simply need to have a fair process - I think the test is about whether your actions as his employer were such that no reasonable employer oin your position would have done the same , and I think dismissal is well within the range of reasonable outcomes for a employee who has falsified time heets, particualrly when it is in the context of general poor performance and after prior issues having ben raised with them.

BrassicWoman

SeagullFTB wrote: »

The issue regarding falsifying time sheets came to light at the end of last week. At this point in time, we have a disciplinary hearing scheduled but no action has yet been taken. We have been gathering evidence (which we now have) to confirm the time sheets were incorrect.

Clearly, however, you would not conclude it was gross misconduct until after the investigation and hearing. And, your punishment would be consistent with other similar cases.

Takeaway_Addict

SeagullFTB wrote: »

The issue regarding falsifying time sheets came to light at the end of last week. At this point in time, we have a disciplinary hearing scheduled but no action has yet been taken. We have been gathering evidence (which we now have) to confirm the time sheets were incorrect.

You really need to get more up to date on employment law.

However for me falsifying sheets is GM because its theft ultimately and untrustworthy

jonnygee2

You really need to get more up to date on employment law.

In fairness, most small employers will learn by experience and as needed. There's an unending amount of knowledge and skills needed to run a business and employment law is rarely high priority.

In fact I thought for a small company they had done pretty well, with a disciplinary hearing and an investigation, and checking here for the correct approach. I think in a lot of small companies you just get told you've been fired and that's that.