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Women SPA this week
Comments
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In a post full of statements which make no sense this is the worst! Of course being a woman has stopped most from doing many things, including being a pilot although there were significant exceptions.
Have you not heard about the glass ceiling.
It is good that you are so empowered and can stand out from the crowd of women who have been marginalised and excluded for so long (and I'm not even touching on pensions). A huge swathe of the woman population have not been so lucky.
Many women did NOT have a choice about caring for aging relatives and to suggest otherwise is outrageous in the extreme. Consider others before making such vast generalistions, it does you or your 'cause' no favours.
Born 64, left school at 82. I became a forklift driver, one of a handful of women driving a forklift at the time. But that job that I did wasnt just driving a forklift, it was mostly loading (stuffing to give it the technical term!), containers. It was dirty, dangerous, heavy work. Drivers and warehousing staff are not very sexist on the whole. I've never heard of another woman do that job. That may suggest more intelligence than I possess!
After 5 years or so, I drove a van round the UK and Europe, behaved like a woman and took an office job which really wasnt my thing before starting a haulage company. Again that's something very, very few woman do. There are women that are heavily involved in trucks, but not many who didn't marry into it. I was the only woman in my specific sector.
I think women are often their own glass ceiling. I'm not actually totally stupid, but I'm nothing special but if you saw my career path, youd think I was a bloke. How many women would want to do what I did, virtually none, yet it's been a good life for me. If you mark out a job as not being for you, then that's a choice. I'm not empowered, more obstinate and I am most definitely not marginalised. If you think of yourself in victim terms, then you will be. You have to get hold of life and make it yours, not be subject to others decisions and bias.
I do agree that women are generally the ones that are expected to look after parents or children that need care. Again though, it is up to each one of us to decide what role we want to play and if we need to question the notion that women take on the caring role. That btw is not a criticism of DQ or anyone else. I was lucky that my parents both died very suddenly. Mr bugs was ill with fast developing dementia. It became clear very quickly that I don't have patience or caring genes. I have complete respect for anyone that can take on a caring role, its physically and emotionally wearing.Yes I'm bugslet, I lost my original log in details and old e-mail address.0 -
left school at 82.
Repeated a lot of years or could not tear yourself away from your books?:)
:eek:I was lucky that my parents both died very suddenly.
I assume you mean that they died unexpectedly rather than after long drawn out illnesses?
And I don't think that not being able to provide full time and long term care for a victim of dementia has much to do with a lack of caring genes.
It is more that it can simply be too much for one person to cope with without assistance?0 -
Born 64, left school at 82. I became a forklift driver, one of a handful of women driving a forklift at the time. But that job that I did wasnt just driving a forklift, it was mostly loading (stuffing to give it the technical term!), containers. It was dirty, dangerous, heavy work. Drivers and warehousing staff are not very sexist on the whole. I've never heard of another woman do that job. That may suggest more intelligence than I possess!
After 5 years or so, I drove a van round the UK and Europe, behaved like a woman and took an office job which really wasnt my thing before starting a haulage company. Again that's something very, very few woman do. There are women that are heavily involved in trucks, but not many who didn't marry into it. I was the only woman in my specific sector.
I think women are often their own glass ceiling. I'm not actually totally stupid, but I'm nothing special but if you saw my career path, youd think I was a bloke. How many women would want to do what I did, virtually none, yet it's been a good life for me. If you mark out a job as not being for you, then that's a choice. I'm not empowered, more obstinate and I am most definitely not marginalised. If you think of yourself in victim terms, then you will be. You have to get hold of life and make it yours, not be subject to others decisions and bias.
I do agree that women are generally the ones that are expected to look after parents or children that need care. Again though, it is up to each one of us to decide what role we want to play and if we need to question the notion that women take on the caring role. That btw is not a criticism of DQ or anyone else. I was lucky that my parents both died very suddenly. Mr bugs was ill with fast developing dementia. It became clear very quickly that I don't have patience or caring genes. I have complete respect for anyone that can take on a caring role, its physically and emotionally wearing.In a post full of statements which make no sense this is the worst! Of course being a woman has stopped most from doing many things, including being a pilot although there were significant exceptions.
Have you not heard about the glass ceiling.
It is good that you are so empowered and can stand out from the crowd of women who have been marginalised and excluded for so long (and I'm not even touching on pensions). A huge swathe of the woman population have not been so lucky.
Many women did NOT have a choice about caring for aging relatives and to suggest otherwise is outrageous in the extreme. Consider others before making such vast generalistions, it does you or your 'cause' no favours.
It's good to read your story. Thanks for posting it, I found it interesting - my post was in response to the nonsensical comments of someone else.
Doesn't deflect from the 'many', the 'most' and the 'crowd'.0 -
Repeated a lot of years or could not tear yourself away from your books?:)
[/B]:eek:
I assume you mean that they died unexpectedly rather than after long drawn out illnesses?
And I don't think that not being able to provide full time and long term care for a victim of dementia has much to do with a lack of caring genes.
It is more that it can simply be too much for one person to cope with without assistance?
That made me laugh:rotfl: - there are days I feel 82, but I can confirm I am a mere whippersnapper at 54:)
I was on my phone, never the best for explanations, yes, they died suddenly and didn't suffer. Seeing how Mr finished his days, I view a sudden death as quite a blessing when you get to your later years.
I couldn't be a nurse, I care but not day in and day out, which is why say hats off to DQ and anyone else who can do it.Yes I'm bugslet, I lost my original log in details and old e-mail address.0 -
Re the bit in bold - I disagree with this.DairyQueen wrote: »You seem to have entirely missed my point. Apparently, if I had other caring responsibilities then I would not have been in a position to 'choose' to care for my parents. Do you see the irony of that view?
Btw.. I am not an only child; I am an only daughter. It never occurred to anyone (including me) that my brother should be making any 'choices'. He was then supporting a wife who, in turn, cared for their two minor children.
Do you see the pattern? or are you being deliberately obtuse in your self-conscious and erratic attempt at denying the results of all research on gender inequality whilst concurrently providing examples that illustrate its validity?
Nor did it occur to me that my parents' care was primarily the responsibility of 'the state'. Another irony of your rather confused post. I have not cost 'other taxpayers'. Quite the contrary, every person (the majority of whom are female) who provides this type of care saves taxpayers many thousands.
Not all families are able to offer support but the alternative can be dire for the elderly, and especially so given the impact of austerity on cash-strapped local authorities and younger tax-payers (aka 'the state'). You seem to be of the opinion that taxpayers are more responsible for your parents' care than are you or your brother. In that respect you are correct... you have indeed achieved gender equality.
Yes I am a victim of gender inequality. So are you, and so is every woman. It's just a question of degree and I am lucky that, unlike so many, my retirement income will not be reduced dramatically as a result.
This status quo will remain until caring (whether for children, the disabled, or the elderly) is not the default expectation of females by virtue of the gender pay gap and of social norms.
I was encouraged by my teachers to go to university just as strongly as the boys in my class (I opted not to).
I joined a large national company which paid males and females the same wage for doing the same job.
Promotion prospects were the same regardless of gender.
I received my state pension aged 64 years and 9 months so a little earlier than a man born on the same day.
So please don't presume to speak for me by saying 'all women are victims of gender inequality'.
I'm certain that I am in a very small minority but that doesn't mean your 'all women' is accurate.
It's hard to say what you would have done in a hypothetical situation but I assure you that if my parents needed care and I had a brother, I wouldn't have automatically stepped into the carer's shoes.0 -
Re the bit in bold - I disagree with this.
I was encouraged by my teachers to go to university just as strongly as the boys in my class (I opted not to).
I joined a large national company which paid males and females the same wage for doing the same job.
Promotion prospects were the same regardless of gender.
I received my state pension aged 64 years and 9 months so a little earlier than a man born on the same day.
So please don't presume to speak for me by saying 'all women are victims of gender inequality'.
I'm certain that I am in a very small minority but that doesn't mean your 'all women' is accurate.
It's hard to say what you would have done in a hypothetical situation but I assure you that if my parents needed care and I had a brother, I wouldn't have automatically stepped into the carer's shoes.
One of my pet hates is the word victim - victim of murder, victim of a natural disaster, that could happen. Things you can affect and have a choice over, you are a victim by choice and I've always said er, balderdash to that. (Other words are available;)).Yes I'm bugslet, I lost my original log in details and old e-mail address.0 -
Seeing how Mr finished his days, I view a sudden death as quite a blessing when you get to your later years.
Yes - it is very, very distressing to see a once vigorous, capable, energetic and cheerful person reduced to the point where he/she is immobile, incontinent, and cannot fulfil the most basic needs without help and where this continues over a long period.0 -
What part of that doesn’t make sense to you?You didn’t HAVE to retire at 52.
You chose to.?
No sense - how you would possibly know what choices the poster had is beyond me and is beyond you too!If you’d had kids of your own, grandkids you looked after or maybe even an ill spouse you would have prioritised and your parents would have received help from the state either at home or in a residential place.
No sense - how you would possibly know what choices the poster had is beyond me and is beyond you too!As the ONLY sibling your situation is not only about your gender either. You’d be in the same situation if you were an only son wouldn’t you??
Just rubbish - historically and even now-a-days it is normally down to the female to do the caring. You saying it isn't so doesn't make it so.The state will support people so what you did was out of choice.
Your assertions get more outlandish - state support for the elderly is in crisis, very expensive and difficult to source.You can certainly choose not to give up work to look after parents these days.
As above! The choice could be a terrible council run care home or the parent being looked after in their own home - Hobson's choice.Our parents had help at home and then went into residential care.
Neither son not daughter could have afforded to give up work without making themselves homeless and also couldn’t just give up childcare either.
(As it happens their needs could not have been managed by one person anyway).
Your own narrative which is applicable to your situation, not everyone's.Not being discriminated against starts With the individuals not “playing the victim”. YOU HAD A CHOICE, so don’t hold other tax payers responsible for your personal choices.
Doesn't make any sense at all. EVEN IF YOU SHOUT IT it's still an attack on those who have found themselves in an impossible decision and are not holding other tax payers responsible. A vast generalistion without basis.My vagina hasn’t stopped me doing anything including becoming a pilot etc. And neither has yours !!
Are you a pilot then? My views on this outrageous statement are already on record.
There you are - my opinions on your post covering your request about what parts don't make sense.
As I don't wish to engage with those who spout moronic views and attack others I will now withdraw from this thread. I was affected by the 2011 changes though have never expressed pity or claimed to be a victim so your attack on me cannot be defended.0 -
Your assertions get more outlandish - state support for the elderly is in crisis, very expensive and difficult to source.
And always be unless we go back to putting the elderly who can't look after themselves into asylums with dormitories. Any service that attempts to provide high-quality care to everyone for free will always be overstretched. Nonetheless it is there, and giving up work to care for your elderly parents is entirely voluntary.
And the "terrible" council run care home will often provide a better standard of care than a resentful child on their own who doesn't know what they're doing, as many Court of Protection cases will testify.Silvertabby wrote: »I agree, even though I am too young to benefit. I'm sure I read somewhere that WASPI was initially set up with the intention of just overturning the 2011 increases - but there was no interest.
Every chance that it was me, as I bang on about it quite a lot (including in this thread, p2). It tends to be me because very few other people have seen the original campaign launched by Anne Keen in 2013 (one of the original horsey-set WASPI founders). It had virtually disappeared from the Internet even when WASPI was launched a few years ago.
Consequently on every WASPI thread someone will say "WASPI should have focused on the 2011 Pensions Act", unaware that they already tried that and it flopped. Then I point it out. Then nobody remembers because nobody remembers failed change.org petitions from 2013.
Anyway, the time to protest against the 2011 Pensions Act was when it was passed. And people did. Successfully. As a result of that successful protest it was watered down from a maximum 2 year increase to 1.5 years. A small group said that wasn't enough and tried to start a petition to throw out the increase completely, and it flopped with zero interest. So the founder and a few others decided to go bigger and louder, and started telling 1950s-born women that they were going to get a £30,000+ cheque in the post when the Government gave in, and WASPI was born. You'd never believe I used to fall asleep during GCSE History lessons.0 -
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