Death with no will and big debt.

swindiff

I know this is not all really pension related but could not really find another more appropriate forum to post this in.

Asking on behalf of my mum whose husband passed away in the last few weeks (my step-dad)

He had no real pension provision, only state pension of around £125/week
My mum has state pension of around £150 a week. When my step-dad was alive they received pension credit totalling around £10/week, being on pension credit entitled them to council tax reduction (probably 90% off). Now my mums state pension has been increased by around £50/week (widows pension) she has been told she is no longer entitled to pension credits or reduced council tax even though she is considerably worse off, albeit as a single person. She is going to go into the council offices at some point to find out what she is entitled to but thought I would ask on here first to see if anyone can enlighten me.

However, this is not the main reason for the thread. The main reason is that he has left no will, and has pretty much no assets, but a very large debt. Thankfully the house is in my mums name only. He was always trying to strike it rich and come up with ideas that he decided to patent. It was not until his death that my mum found out that he owes patent solicitors somewhere in the region of £100k and they were in the process of taking him to court. From what I have read, and hope, it would appear that this debt dies with him.

The question is how do we wind up his estate (or lack thereof). My mum has already taken all his clothes to a charity shop. There is a car registered in his name but my mum paid for it so she is currently in the process of trying to sell it and buy a smaller car for herself. He had no cash to speak of (my mum found an account of his with £7 in it. I guess the only asset is the patent, but that could be worthless for all I know.

As there is no will there are no executors, I have read in these circumstances that next of kin can apply to be an administrator of the estate and apply for probate. But I have also read that if the estate is valued at less than £5000 that you do not go need to go to probate. If this is the case what needs to be done next.

TIA

crv1963

I think that you could try the Deaths, Funerals and Probate Forum? From what I understand is if the car is in his name then it now belongs to the estate, therefore selling it now may come back to bite your Mum. Your Mum may find although she paid for the car she has a lower claim on it than paying costs due.

First priority of the estate is to provide for the funeral, from there onward I am not certain the priority give to creditors if the estate is insolvent.

xylophone

If her income is around £200 a week, she is certainly above the standard Minimum Income Guarantee.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs48_pension_credit_fcs.pdf

At the least she should be entitled to the single person discount for CT and in view of the very modest income, possibly some additional help.

Has she checked the council web site for information?

With regard to your stepfather's estate, see

https://www.bereavementadvice.org/topics/probate-and-legal/insolvent-estates/

https://www.co-oplegalservices.co.uk/media-centre/articles-may-aug-2017/what-is-an-insolvent-estate/

GabbaGabbaHey

swindiff wrote: »

There is a car registered in his name but my mum paid for it

crv1963 wrote: »

From what I understand is if the car is in his name then it now belongs to the estate, therefore selling it now may come back to bite your Mum. Your Mum may find although she paid for the car she has a lower claim on it than paying costs due.

Be aware that the Registered Keeper (as listed on the V5C) is not the same thing as the owner of the vehicle. If your mother can show (through a purchase receipt or whatever) that she purchased the car, and that she did not transfer ownership to your stepfather, then it should be regarded as hers and should not form part of his estate.

Mojisola

swindiff wrote: »

The main reason is that he has left no will, and has pretty much no assets, but a very large debt.

It was not until his death that my mum found out that he owes patent solicitors somewhere in the region of £100k and they were in the process of taking him to court. From what I have read, and hope, it would appear that this debt dies with him.

The question is how do we wind up his estate (or lack thereof).

You don't. It's an insolvent estate and you shouldn't touch it or you may become financially liable.

You can inform people that he has died but also tell them that no-one is taking on the role of Administrator.

swindiff

Thanks for your replies. As has been said although the car was registered to my step-dad that does not necessarily imply ownership. I'll have to ask my mum if she has any proof of purchase. She had let the solicitors and courts know that he is deceased and had no assets, so from what I gather from your replies that is all she needs to do? Presumably they won't just take her word for that, how do we prove it ?

My brother still lives with her so don't think she could get the single persons discount. The fact that he is still at home seemed to have no bearing on the pension credit though.

lisyloo

how do we prove it ?

they can pay £3 to establish land registry details on the property.
A statement from the bank account with £7 in it might help, but ultimately it's up to them to prove if they think there is any hidden money.



Maybe someone else can confirm but I think joint assets do not go into the estate e.g. any joint bank accounts.


If your brother lives at home and he's a worknig adult then he should be contributing to the bills e.g. council tax.

xylophone

The fact that he is still at home seemed to have no bearing on the pension credit though.

It doesn't have any bearing on PC - from information given, it seems that her income is too high to qualify for PC - see Age UK fact sheet for full details.

Re CT see https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/help-if-on-a-low-income/help-with-your-council-tax-council-tax-reduction/how-your-council-tax-reduction-is-worked-out/council-tax-reduction-non-dependant-deductions-for-pensioners/

As your mother is aware that her husband died intestate and insolvent, it is probably best not to become involved in any way with the administration of his estate?

See https://www.luptonfawcett.com/blog/dealing-with-insolvent-estates/

xylophone

I think joint assets do not go into the estate e.g. any joint bank accounts.

Whatever share was contributed by the deceased is counted as part of his estate.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/inheritance-tax-manual/ihtm15042

AnotherJoe

swindiff wrote: »

Thanks for your replies. As has been said although the car was registered to my step-dad that does not necessarily imply ownership. I'll have to ask my mum if she has any proof of purchase. She had let the solicitors and courts know that he is deceased and had no assets, so from what I gather from your replies that is all she needs to do? Presumably they won't just take her word for that, how do we prove it ?

You don't have to. Let them try if they want to find the money.

atush

Your brother should now be paying his way re bills. If he isnt, he should move out.