Claimant Fixed Contract expired

Lego-9

Hi everyone,

Briefly, I have a set aside hearing coming up this week and have received the witness statement pack the claimant has filed ahead of my hearing.

Within this pack there is a contract with the Lettings Agent/Property manager - I am defending this case under Primacy of Contract first and foremost. I have been reading up on key defences on here and have learned a lot but now I have hit something that I feel is quite strong but would like to get opinions.

The supposed contract that the PPC has included between the management/owner/client of the building in the pack is from a date almost 8 years prior to the contravention. More importantly, the contract was for a fixed 12 month term back in 2010. There is no clause in the T&Cs to suggest that it is a rolling contract. Does this mean that the contract is not valid and has run out? Possibly suggesting that they are not meant to be active on site/unlawful issue of tickets?

The terms and conditions also state that they are accredited/operate under BPA but at the time of contravention they are IPC credited. Does this improve the aforementioned point?

Finally, the contract is signed with a client when at the time of my tenancy no longer existed. To elaborate, my AST is agreed between me as a tenant with a completely different company within the same building complex. Surely this means that this contract is null and they are not lawfully allowed to do their biz without a new contract highlighting the points above? Or that under my AST it cannot be trumped as it is in relation to a different company I have no agreement with?

Amongst all these questions I have, I thank you for your time, how am I meant to draw on these points prior to the hearing? Do I need to file an amended defence highlighting these points? Or do I include within my draft defence I take with me to the hearing/or just brush up on them at the hearing and then use as defence points come PPC reinstating the claim?

Thanks for everyone's help with this.

Fruitcake

You aver everything you have written above is the case, and put the claimants to proof that the opposite is true.

Eight year old contract lasting twelve months and nothing to indicate it was ever renewed or is current. You state, no contract was in place at the time. If they don't come up with a contemporaneous contract then the judge should find in your favour. Do this with every point.

If they don't come up with a contract, complain to the DVLA that they were not justified in obtaining your personal data.

Are you following the guide to court written by bargepole that you can find in post 2 of the NEWBIES. This tells you what to do and when.

Lego-9

@fruitcake

Thank you for raising these points.

I am currently awaiting for my set aside hearing. I have filed everything but going over the documents filed by the PPC, I am inclined to make a strong point of this. I am unsure as to how.

Do I draft a letter to the Claimant highlighting this and then file the correspondence prior to my hearing?

Coupon-mad

Amongst all these questions I have, I thank you for your time, how am I meant to draw on these points prior to the hearing?

I am inclined to make a strong point of this. I am unsure as to how.

Do I draft a letter to the Claimant highlighting this and then file the correspondence prior to my hearing?

But this is a set aside hearing, not a hearing about the actual merits of the claim (unless the Judge is on your side and wants to hear that too and orders the claim struck out and your £255 fee and travel/loss of salary refunded by the Claimant - that's icing on the cake if so!).

But generally a set aside hearing is fairly short and is not the time for defence.

You don't submit that until the set aside is agreed at the first hearing, unless your Judge has written and asked for a defence or skeleton argument?

Just read other set aside threads, as this has been said loads of times before when people ask what to show the Judge; here are just three I found in seconds:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75512066#Comment_75512066

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75447066#Comment_75447066

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74864199#Comment_74864199

HTH - take the proof that you moved but were there to be found, etc.

Umkomaas

On what basis are you applying for a set aside? Was the original court claim served on an old address?

The_Deep

I agree with CM, the set aside should concentrate on the reason why it was not defended, i.e. paperwork was sent to a very old address.

Once you have obtained the set aside, and they continue to pursue the original claim you would imo be in a good position to counter claim and/or chase them for unreasonable behaviour costs.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Lego-9

Coupon-mad wrote: »

But this is a set aside hearing, not a hearing about the actual merits of the claim (unless the Judge is on your side and wants to hear that too and orders the claim struck out and your £255 fee and travel/loss of salary refunded by the Claimant - that's icing on the cake if so!).

But generally a set aside hearing is fairly short and is not the time for defence.

You don't submit that until the set aside is agreed at the first hearing, unless your Judge has written and asked for a defence or skeleton argument?

Just read other set aside threads, as this has been said loads of times before when people ask what to show the Judge; here are just three I found in seconds:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75512066#Comment_75512066

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75447066#Comment_75447066

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74864199#Comment_74864199

HTH - take the proof that you moved but were there to be found, etc.

CM - I'm sorry I didn't make my intentions clear enough. I have done everything and am pretty confident with what I need to do for the hearing based on all the set-aside threads I have read. The Judge has not written anything to me requesting for any further information. I have looked over the 3 threads and have been of great help when setting my to-do list when getting the claim set aside.

I was just wondering whether I would be able to use this key information as a double whammy when requesting for my costs and for the claim struck out just like you mentioned above. I guess I would include with the draft defence I can take with me on the day along with all my other evidence. If not, I can just wait if PPC decide to reinstate.

Lego-9

Umkomaas wrote: »

On what basis are you applying for a set aside? Was the original court claim served on an old address?

Umkomaas - I am applying as the original claims were served at an old address. The catch here is, I received their LBCCs served to my old address and responded with my rebuttal confirming my new address. The PPC chose to continue to pursue the claim at my old address even though I had told them of the change and had updated all the other DVLA requirements as well. So I feel strong grounds to get this set aside. :beer:

Lego-9

The_Deep wrote: »

I agree with CM, the set aside should concentrate on the reason why it was not defended, i.e. paperwork was sent to a very old address.

Once you have obtained the set aside, and they continue to pursue the original claim you would imo be in a good position to counter claim and/or chase them for unreasonable behaviour costs.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

TD - Thank you. I will keep in mind once the outcome of the set aside is made!

Umkomaas

Lego-9 wrote: »

Umkomaas - I am applying as the original claims were served at an old address. The catch here is, I received their LBCCs served to my old address and responded with my rebuttal confirming my new address. The PPC chose to continue to pursue the claim at my old address even though I had told them of the change and had updated all the other DVLA requirements as well. So I feel strong grounds to get this set aside. :beer:

Not only should a set aside be automatic, I think you should be pursuing them hard for the distress and major headache their complete disregard of the information you gave them of your new address for service. Unreasonable behaviour, surely?

Which PPC is involved?

Coupon-mad

Unreasonable behaviour, surely?

YES.

Conduct that does not have a reasonable explanation = PUNITIVE COSTS!

This person (below) listed the conduct in such a damning way that they got over £700 granted in costs on 'the indemnity basis' that you must ask for too, Lego-9.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75807521#Comment_75807521

Take your proof that you replied to the LBC with your new address (did you email it, or did you keep proof of posting?). Show the Judge, and read up on indemnity basis costs, and claim AT LEAST £19 per hour LiP rate as well as your attendance costs.

You could even charge more, on the basis ''if you don't ask, you don't get'' (half the hourly rate of a band D 'trainee solicitor/paralegal' fee earner can be appropriate, in rare cases we've seen, and yours now seems like a complete scam, deliberate or negligent GDPR breach/DPA data misuse, and a waste of your valuable time and that of the court).

You should also read Sassii's costs schedule (he got four figures). I think it's in the NEWBIES thread costs schedules links. It is all about listing the unreasonable conduct and knowing you can claim these costs and which CPR applies, in case the Judge is unsure.

:T